The story of Karna has to do a lot with how a girl’s curiosity for a “gift” led her to a miserable life which became a curse not only for her but also for her great son whose life was plagued with injustice. It can aptly be said that it is a story of a tragic hero who had royal blood in him but was never considered royal; leave aside the respect and honour he deserved. It is a story in which a warrior gave his life for friendship, even though it meant being on the opposite side of his brothers the Pandavas(who knew nothing of karna’s existence till he was killed by one of them, namely Arjun).
More notably it is a story of a great soul who was a great philanthropist and in one instance gave away his very protective body armor (‘Kavacha’) and a pair of earrings (‘Kundala’), which he was born with.( which the sun god, his father had given to him so that he could not be killed by anyone.)
Kunti:
The story of karna cannot begin or end without Kunti being the central character. She was Karna’s biological mother. The best metaphor to represent her in this present era are those girls who are from well to do families and want “freedom” but end up with teenage pregnancies and then abandon their new born, not letting anyone know in the process about what occurred, thereby manifesting a life of misery for the child.
Kunti’s other sons Yudhistra, Bhim and Arjun were sons by various other gods as Pandu was cursed that he cannot have physical relations with his wives or any women.(since pandu accidentally killed a Rishi in forest hunting who had taken the form of deer and was enjoying with his mate. The Rishi cursed Pandu that he would similarly die when he would mate with his wife therefore can never bear sons as per a curse by a sage).
In short Kunti was quite the matriarch, I bet modern feminist would be so proud of her achievements of having kids with whoever she wanted, though it is been reported in Mahabharata that she had a mantra that she could call upon any god for a “gift”.)
Karna’s Birth :
When Kunti called Sun god with a mantra to test the validity of the mantra, which was provided to her by a sage who was happy with her service towards her when the sage came to her palace (after all the women empowerment and liberation are key factors here) she got scared and wanted the Sun God to go away, but he pleaded his helplessness against the power of mantra. (she was one with captivating spell)
Surya dev (or Sun God) however assured Kunti that even after being blessed with a son, she would still remain a virgin and would not have to suffer any opprobrium. And so Karna was born with kavach and kundal (armor which would make him invincible). Kunti was nevertheless afraid of social stigma and therefore she abandoned the child. She put Karna in a basket and placed the same in the Ganges river, the basket was seen by Adhirath, a charioteer, who had no issues. He picked up the baby and brought him up. That is why Karna is also sometimes called Sarathiputra. Thereby karna became the illegitimate eldest son of Kunti. (the irony of the situation is that there are many karnas born even today).
On a personal note one would never forgive Kunti for what she did to Karna,even though many feminist can go gaga over her problem. The point however would remain that she never owned up her responsibility and her fault till the end. So even though she was karna’s mother, from my view point she was the reason that karna had to suffer so much in life and one would rarely sympathies with such a character, her “pain” was nothing compared to the pain endured by karna throughout his life. (though many would disagree with my viewpoint)
Teachings and the curse by Parshuram:
As Karna grew up, he became more interested in the art of warfare than in merely being a charioteer like his father Adhirata. Karna met Dronacharya, who was an established teacher in the art of warfare. Dronacharya taught the Kuru princes, but refused to take Karna as his student, since Karna was a son of a charioteer and Dronacharya only taught Kshatriyas, or warriors. (another case of elitism in education system and deep arrogance)
After being refused by Dronacharya, Karna sought his brother Shona’s help. But in Indian culture, to learn an art you must have a teacher, so Karna appointed the sun god as his first taecher, learned to wield his weapons during the day by gathering information about the various weapons and practiced with them after sundown.
Karna was keen to acquire the Brahmastra mantra from the great teacher Parshuram. However, he knew that Parshuram gave instructions to Brahmins (the priestly tribe) only (call it elitism in education system). So he disguised as a Brahmin and beseeched Parshuram to accept him as a disciple. Parshuram accepted him as such and started giving him instructions.
One day when Parshuram was resting in Karnas lap, it so happened that a bee stung Karna on the lower part of his thigh (It was Lord Indra who did that by taking the form of a bee). It was very painful and he started bleeding. However, fearing that if he moved his legs, he would awaken Parshuram, he did not move at all and continued to suffer. When Parshuram woke up, he saw Karna bleeding.
He cursed him immediately as he believed that a Brahmin cannot suffer so much physical pain. Only a kshatriya (the warrior tribe) can endure so much discomfort. Karna was obliged to disclose his identity. Parshuram was greatly annoyed because he was a sworn enemy of Kshatriyas. He therefore cursed Karna that as he had learnt through deceit, he shall forget the skill which Parshuram had taught him at the crucial juncture.
Karna pleaded that any student would have acted in the same way and that he was the son of Vasusena, a mere charioteer and not a Kshatriya. But while Parashurama regretted cursing Karna in a moment of anger, his curse was irrevocable (This shows how 2nd misjudegment after kunti’s resulted in the downfall of karna). In order to subside the curse Parashurama gave to Karna as a gift the celestial weapon called Bhargavastra, along with his personal bow called Vijaya, for being such a diligent student.
Then there was another curse in which he accidentally killed a poor bhramin’s cow who cursed him helpless in the same way the innocent cow had become, by his chariot wheels getting stuck to his ground. (The reason on his death he was not on his chariot when Arjun killed him)
Draupadi and karna
The problem with Draupadi was that she was as flawed as Kunti but with loads of EGO inside her. (It seems to me that it was karna’s fate to have such flawed women in his life even though his quality as man was what women always wish in a son or a husband)
It is said that when Draupadi was once praying for a husband, she asked that her husband be:
1) Righteous and good
2) Strong and brave
3) A great warrior
4) Good looking
5) Handsome
Lord Shiva told her that no one man can have all the 5 qualities. But as usual Drupadi highly stubborn and egoistic would not relent, Lord Shiva granted her wish. Except she had to be the wife of 5 brothers- each Pandav brother had one of the qualities she desired.
Yudhistra (righteous and good)
Bheem (strong and brave)
Arjun (a great warrior)
Nakul and Sahdev (good-looking/handsome).
However it is said, Karna had all these 5 qualities- he was after all technically the eldest of Kunti’s son .
When he went for her swamwar (where a woman is allowed to choose her husband, yes it was very liberating experience back then in ancient India too), where Pandav were dressed as Brahmins or Priests. She insulted him by calling him a mere son of a charioteer who DARED to think of marrying a princess, being true to her egoistic nature (after all she considered herself to be very EDUCATED and she believed that she knew everything about karna, another case where her arrogance was at best, as in reality karna was of Royal Blood and eldest brother of 5 Pandav, so in short was the perfect husband for her, Krishna here too played his spoiler game by misguiding Draupadi)
Karna and Arjun
It would be right to say that their fight was much like two tigers fighting for their pride , only that in this case Karna knew the truth but Arjun didn’t. The hostilities between Karna and Arjun were since childhood were in when he heard his brother shone tell about Arjun piercing through the eyes of a fish. Karna retaliated that he could pierce through two eyes of the fish with just one shot.
The Arjun’s humiliation of karna again and again by calling him the son of a mere charioteer or shurdra ( lowly ranked Servant ) who DARED to fight the kshatriyas or warrior tribe men made the blood of karna boil. Then the biggest reason fight between them is Draupadi (who I think was born just to get Mahabharat started with absolute egoism)
Many have said Karna was wrong in calling Draupadi a whore while she was being stripped by Durshasan. He said that saying that a women having more than one husband is a whore (as Draupadi had five Pandavas to be called as Husbands).
Though one would like to bring a different perspective here. Karna’s attempt to humiliate Draupadi and damage her spirit can be seen as revenge act. Draupadi too humiliated karna and damaged his spirit and kept on doing so till the end, by calling a shudra ( son of a servant). If a woman’s pain and humiliation is taken into account then why shouldn’t a man’s pain be considered, after all earlier he gave her full respect and wanted to love and honour her as his bride but she called him names ?
Karna’s Death:
His death was a result of a series of curses which he received in his life. Those curses were due to the misjudgment of the ones giving them. It was also due to his mother who did not care about her eldest son but was content with her 3 sons and 2 step-sons, though she came to plead to him before the day he was suppose to fight Arjun to not fight,but Karna said it was too late for her to recognize him as her son.It was also result of his giving up of his body Armour and earning with which he was born to Lord Indra who came disguised as a poor Brahmin. Karna use to pray to Sun God at every noon and he was famous for giving away anything that some asked from him at that time even if it may lead to his death. Indra capitalized on that nobility of karna and asked for his armour to save his son. Indra, shamed into generosity by Karna’s gesture, reciprocated by giving Karna the boon to use his most powerful weapon, the Vasavi shakti, but only once. It was then that Karna earned the name Vaikartana, as he cut the armour off his body without flinching.
During kurushetra war,while fighting against Arjun, karna’s chariot wheel sank into the ground in loose, wet soil. Descending from his chariot to remove the wheel, he requested Arjuna to wait, as the etiquette of battle allowed. However, Krishna instructed Arjun to kill Karna while he was weaponless even though rules of war state that no warrior will raise his arms against an opponent who is without his weapon. But Krishna knew that in a fair war, Arjun would not be able defeat Karna. His rationale was that killing Karna was critical to win the war and hence a necessary evil.
The real deal and Karna on management:
The real deal is that world did not deserved a great and noble warrior as karna. His defiance, fight against odds, anger, philanthropy, courage, hunger for knowledge, honorable conduct, devotion to teacher and loyalty towards friend, all are traits for deep admiration. The world never recognized while he was alive his greatness. In corporate world there will be karnas who will keep on doing their duty because it shall be done, even though it means fighting against all odds. In the end they may or may not get RESPECT for their efforts.
Karna in today’s world:
They are all around you, the only thing is that those of the likes of Bhishma or Krishna can see right through them. For rest, it is no need to know who is Karna as their life of arrogance will get affected and so will Karna’s charm.
PS: for those who want a woman’s perspective on karna can visit http://seema-suchislife.blogspot.in/2010/05/complete-man-karna.html
Loved this post , thank you for putting it up. It is true that the pandavs won the war with a lot of deciept and Krishna played a big role in all those Unfair means ..
Karna is one of the heroes i admire a lot and his luck did not side with him
you are right true people who do everytthing as it should happen never get recognition while others get evertyhing …
Karna was Danveer & Brave but not justice because he killed Abhimanyu with six maharathi
what about when his two sons were killed by “justice oriented” Pandavs, who ganged against them and killed them one by one. Only one survived the entire kurukshetra war. Nobody like to mention or talk about Karna’s sons. Why is that ?
The only reason people talk about Abhimanyu is that he was Arjun’s son.
What about other sons, do they require no mention are they not honorable enough ?
Or a son of a BASTARD or sutputra (servant) as he was called deserves no mention…
why is that Indian historians are obsessed with Abhimanyu only, why no body talks about Vrishasena ?
@Chandra Kant Singh,
it was Drona who was in command. dushasan’s son killed abhi in a 1 on 1 mace fight. y only karna is blamed ? y didn’t arjuna/historians blame drona for it was he who asked karna to break abhi’s bow ? is it bcoz drona was his guru/becoz he was a brahmin ??? besides abhi went into chakravyuha willingly. half knowledge can b fatal, y didn’t pandavas checked if abhi knew to get out or not ? 1ce again yudhishtira’s zero decision making capability is evident.
Pandavas were victims of Kaurav – and Karna’s – mischief for the best part of their life.
In the end, they decided to fight back and no longer be the victims of “due process of law”.
Read my post to understand why Karna and Kauravas were wrong –
http://www.pushti-marg.net/bhagwat/Mahabharata/hypocracy-1.htm
Karn, by virtue of his promise/bondage/vow/loyalty/swearing of oath & allegiance, had 2 be faithful to the evil 3some Duryodhana, Shakunii & dushshaasana!!! he HAD TO fall in line with their tactics/plans/intentions/motives, much akin 2 how Mahaamahim Bheeshm, Kriipaachaarya, Guruu DronaAachaarya, etc. & even perhaps Vidura had to conform/comply to the decision of Mahaaraaj Dhritaraashttra —– if u swear allegiance to an absolute level/xtent, how would you desert your master/friend/ally/partner/commander?? Don’t u understand the logic that y on earth has the Indian army never gone on the offensive despite vile provokes from Pak & y Indian forces came back after having conquered a gr8 deal of Pak in 1948 or y Ind released tens of thouscands of PoWs in 1971 —- Ind millitary or armed forces have to strictly follow you know who!!! Similar iz the logic y Indian intelligensia etc. & int/ext. security agencies etc. have yet pardoned & absolved guyz like Hafeez Saeed & Dawood Ibraahim instead of smoking them out right from Pakistan & pulverizing walloping mauling them in a 3rd party nation like Afghanistan or Lanka or EastBengal etc. {something that the Israeli Mossaadd does ever & anon, tym & again 2 whosoever breaches Israel’s people’s ri8 to security]
I am a Muslim but Karna he was my dream man from my childhood.I love him and admire him as my dream man, a great warrior , a great human being, a man torn between good and evil but at the the end he is a human being.He is the Hector, Saladin and Asoka.He is the embodiment of true light and fighter against the fate.He never cared for his life but for his ideal for his duty.
Karna is everywhere in our life and Karna is Karna.There is no comparison with him.
u wrote so beautifully .. every word is TRUTH n every word touched my heart
I am agrre wth abed. karna is everywhere in our life, many complicated and unfair that we feel but in the end,lifes is about choice and commitment for everything that we’re believe. no matter how peoples assumption.
If you would like to read a play about Sutaputra Karna written by me, you can get a soft copy by request to sharad_23shah@hotmail.com
I’ve sent one, O venerable Sire of immeasurable energy!!!
venerated @Sharad Shah sir,,,, I’ve sent u e-mails from both my ymail & gmail account requesting the soft copy —————- it would be very kind of u, o sire, shall u sooner than later e–mail the concerned soft–copy to any of my 2 mail IDs
Mahaamahiim AtyMahaaRathii Gangaaputra Devavrat Bheeshm [one of da 8 Vasus reborn az human ]too!!!!
Before you say that do remember the injustices that were done to the Pandavas by the Kauravas! It’s all fair to be unjust to a person who has be unjust to you! The idea is to achieve victory of good over evil by hook or crook. That was Sri Krishna’s policy as well.
Are you sying if you do bad in response to bad..It becomes right.
If that Is the case then what happened in paris is also good.. that can’t be right…
Were the Pandavas never deceived at all?
yes, If ever there is a side I need to pic up in war of kurukshetra. I will always fight with karna even if guarantees certain death.
After all Arjun had everything. He was pretty much like a 90% kid who goes to Ivy league and is loved by all and has a beautiful wife, but karna only thing he had was his friends and he was a loyal friend, who would die for them. So fighting for such a friend is far better than fighting along with deceitful relatives and brothers (of the likes of Pandav) who are manipulative and are there just because of goodie goodie gestures they give since they could earn something out of you..
Though Duryodhan was real issue there, who wanted just power.
Duryodhan .. Yeah he needed power but i dont blame him for wnting it after all his father was the king, even if he was doing it for someone else.. the boy was raised like that , that one day he will be king.. I would have done the same.
Yet he did not do anything wrong at the level pandavs did .. he fought the war fair and sqare
Did the Kauravs ever fight fair ?
Duryodhan gained Shalva’s army by deceit.
He fought behind the shield of Bhsihma and Drona, knowing Arjun would never fight fully against them.
Duryodhan and his ilk killed Abhimanu and various others by unfair means.
The night war was also illegal.
Ashwastham’s murder of sleeping warriors was totally wrong.
Yes, Pandavas used some unfair means but that’s because they were fed up of being victims any more. How long should victims remain victims ? Why shouldn’t a victim fight back ?
Anyone who thinks Kauravas were right needs to re-read the text to figure out which side they support.
As Kauravas began to loose in the battle, they began to complain that Pandavas were using unfair means to win the war.
http://www.pushti-marg.net/bhagwat/Mahabharata/hypocracy-1.htm
For all his “good traits”, Karna was flawed in many ways – including pride, ego, revenge, decite and hate.
Lets not forget, he lied to Parshuram to get his weapons.
He took part in every crooked scheme of Duryodhan and Shakuni.
He insulted Draupadi AND wanted to see her striped her naked in public !
He lost to Arjun a number of times, yet kept boasting he could beat him.
He was always rude to his elders and never accepted their advice.
He was responsible for killing Abhimanu by ganging up on him.
Why than complain about Arjun firing at him from a point of advantage ? Had Karna led a blameless life, his death would be sad. But he was far from pure.
http://www.pushti-marg.net/bhagwat/Mahabharata/karna.htm
Arjun was NOTHING had Guru Dronacharya not asked EKLAVYA for his thumb. Karna was FAR superior. Arjun had everything going for him He never faced any problem . He is the 90% kid who has loads of arrogance. Karna FOUGHT his way up. ARJUN and the likes of him would have DIED, had they been in his situation.
Point by point rebuttal :
1. Lets not forget, he lied to Parshuram to get his weapons.
Then how does he get education in that ELITIST environment. Nothing wrong in gaining education in the way he did. You sound like an ELITIST who thinks only certain people should get so and so right rest should just die, especially the BASTARDS. Pashuram when he gave the curse later felt sad too. The real CURSE should be ON kunti for ABANDONING Karna.She LET him DIE.
2. He took part in every crooked scheme of Duryodhan and Shakuni.
Pandav took part in every scheme to insult him and humiliate him. They made no menace in the fact to make sure that karna’s spirit was broken. They encouraged their WIFE to keep on humiliating Karna. Their BELOVED mother KUNTI who was having Fun. Never cared to tell Pandavs that Karna is your brother donot insult him. She never told them that he is not a son of a charioteer but rather son of SUN GOD. Did the pandavas spare karna when he was vulnerable, NO they did not. They did not CARE about ethics. All that mattered was there higher CLASS.
3. He insulted Draupadi AND wanted to see her striped her naked in public !
Draupadi was fit to be insulted. She cannot hide behind her gender and get away all the time. Who ever in this world says that a woman has a BIRTH RIGHT to call names to innocent men and never be punished for her “outrages” inflammatory actions is nothing but turning blind eye to EVIL. There are many women in present world who think that they can get away with murders too as the law and ETHICS of the world will SPARE her, since she is A WOMAN. (shame on such Hippocracy, shame on such justice, shame on such CLASSISM,shame on such SEXISM, shame on such men who protect them and shame such women). The woman like Draupadi gives BAD name to womanhood. There were many women in Mahabharat but Draupadi was the MOST FLAWED. (Those who idealise Draupadi as “the”, SHAME on them)
The only reason there is an uproar when people justify her stripping is that she had a Woman’s BODY, had it been a man NOBODY would have cared . That is the only reason there is an outcry. Some writers in their BIASED mindsets against karna, always say that Draupadi is a victim. She is not a victim she is the INSTIGATOR, the real HUMILIATOR and the one who thinks she can STRIP men of their honour,their self respect, their DIGNITY, show men their CLASS and walk away BOASTING that she is Pandavs wife or a woman and that she will get those killed who DARE cross her path. She is the most CUNNING character in Mahabharat. Such women can never be victims. For those who say that she is a victim, certainly have never crossed the path of real life draupadis.
Being a woman does-not guarantees you to be absolved of anything. She gets sympathy ONLY because of her GENDER that her body was that of a WOMAN. Rest she was plain egoistic woman who cannot be even called lady. She was a female Duryodhan if we can put it that way.
4. He lost to Arjun a number of times, yet kept boasting he could beat him.
Who says he lost to ARJUN, what is ARJUNS standing in front of Karna. Arjun shaked at the sight of karna in battle and asked Krishna the following lines and krishna gave him reply to calm him:
“What will you do if Karna is able to kill me?” Arjun asked Krishna. Krishna smiled and replied, “The sun will fall, the earth shatter into a thousand fragments, and fire lose its heat before he kills you. But if he does, it is a sign that the end of the world has come. As for me, I shall kill him with my bare hands.”
Arjun knew only Karna apart from Bhisma was the one who could kill him. Most importantly where was Arjun’s ethics when he brought Shikhandi to KILL bhishma. Arjun didnot have the spine to stand tall like KARNA and fight all odds. Only odds he was fighting was the one bestowed by either Dronacharya or Krishna.
5. He was always rude to his elders and never accepted their advice.
This one makes me LAUGH and that too LOUD. which “self-serving” elders do YOU talk of ?
A mother who abandoned her son, who refuses to recognize him and LIVED like a QUEEN.
A father called SUN god who was self obsessed, who just WATCHED his son suffer.
A charioteer who adopted him , who said that be INFERIOR to others and NEVER question authorities.
A teacher who cursed him without knowing his story.
A God called krishna who tried to manipulate him.
who do you talk of,these ELDERS faced NOTHING what karna went through and only because a princess wanted to TEST something, such a SELFISH act ?
All “elders” in his life were “self-serving” people who cared about themselves more…. they didnot care if karna dies.They just wanted the BASTARD out of their life.
6. He was responsible for killing Abhimanyu by ganging up on him.
Grossly misrepresentation of fact. Dronacharya was responsible for that when he build that trap. Duryodhan was responsible who along with his brother killed Abhimanyu. It is easy to say and cry about the death of Abhimanyu because he was ARJUN’s son. What about karna’s sons, are they not worth to be talked about… Since they were sons of a “ROYAL BASTARD“, were their stories not important… This is just self obsessed pseudo intellectual talk. Your view is focused upon certain things and neglect the whole picture.It reflects a DEEP rooted bias against Karna.
7. Why than complain about Arjun firing at him from a point of advantage ? Had Karna led a blameless life, his death would be sad. But he was far from pure.
First of all as far as PURE is concerned.
Karna didnot SHARE his wife with his brothers.
Karna did not put his wife at stake in gamble.
Karna didnot ask his teacher to make him the greatest warrior and make sure no one better
(there by leading to the condition of Eklavya with a thumb cut).
Karna didnot humiliate others by calling them “non-kshatriyas” without knowing the entire story.
Karna did not have a EGOISTIC wife who fought with EVERYONE and called them names and then used her gender to PROTECT herself and avenge herself.
Karna did not use shikhandi to kill Bhishma, infact when a snake said should I bite Arjun, he said no.
Karna did not throw his Kshatriya status at other people’s faces.
If Karna wanted Arjun would have been dead long ago. He spared the life of Yudhistra as latter was uncapable of fighting, but Arjun Killed Karna when he was most vulnerable.
Very well said……..arjun cannot stand infront of the greatness of karna…..the only reason arjun is justified is bcoz krishna stood with him and he was prince ……and karna was not royal in the eyes of people and karna had the ability to defeat arjun even without his kavaj and kundal………
Karna could not defeat Arjun during the swayamvar. Arjun was alone, Karna had Kauravas and other kings to support him.
Karna could not defeat Arjun during the war outside Virat. Karna had an entire army with him.
Karna could not defeat Arjun during the main battle though he joined 10 days into the battle.
Karna could not defeat Drupada. Arjun did.
Karna could not defeat the gandharvas. Arjun did.
Karna boasted much, achieved little. Those who speak of Karna’s greatness should study his success and failures more closely.
LOL !!!!
Karna did want to kill Arjun and he tried many times.
He failed.
Krushna was only therein the final battle, but at other times also, Karna tried and failed to kill the Pandavas, Arjun in particular.
He failed to burn Pandavas by deceit in the lakshagruha. By supporting Duryodhan, Karna was equally responsible.
He failed to kill Arjun at Draupadi’s marriage though Arjun did not have the amour or weapons Karna had.
He failed at Virat though Karna had the entire army and Arjun was all alone.
He failed in the Kurushetra battle though Arjun was already battle worn when Karna came in fresh on the 10th day.
I have nothing against Karna. I have nothing for Arjun. Why should I ? They are both long dead and they have no relationship with me.
But facts are facts.
Karna tried his best to kill Arjun and the rest of the Pandavas. He failed.
Karna used underhanded means to defeat, deprive and humiliate Pandavas. He failed. Pandavas are still respected as heroes while Karna is seen as the pitiful anti-hero on the wrong side of the battlefield. People sympathize with him for being born out of wedlock. But he was wrong on so many other counts, he inspires pity more than any other emotion.
My dear friends and my fellow bharathvaasi,
Our scriptures / our teachers / our parents / elders never teach us to comment on others.. and if we do…. our elders first suggest to listen to this so called great Mahabharath which is to learn how to behave and how not to be….
first of all before commenting you should read and understand the complete scripture… and be well knowledge before commenting our great scriptures….
Here comes to the your logics of Karna…
As Karna was actually the monster Dambodbhava in his previous life….
As Arjuna would have died if Karna had the armour, Indra went in disguise and got the last armour (the last one left of Sahasrakavacha of Dambodbhava which is the boon from sun god) of Karna, much before the war began.
But Karna also had Surya, the Sun God inside him, so Karna was a hero as well! A hero, who was the most powerful, bravest and the most tragic warrior in the Mahabharatha….
Hate for the Pandavas and Drupadi was just the cause of his down fall.
This is our scriptures…. to follow and to live like real human with humanity…. Please never fight against or argue with one sided without having complete information(which cause others laugh at us)
Finally forgive me if anything went wrong in my text or misunderstood…
Thanks
hmmm!!!! I appreciate & laud, o sire, ur comment & preaching da8 da cause 4 Karna’s downfall was that he{Raadheya Karn}, despite being a gr8 hero & 1 of da only 4 students/disciples of a Saptarshii putra cum Lord Vishnuu’s 6th Avataar, initially failed 2 realize da8, from the Imperial control, who the victims were{Paandavas, Kuntii, Bheeshma, Vidura, Gaandhaary etc.} & who the criminals n conspirators were{Duryodhana, Shakunii, Dushshaasana, Ashwaththaamaa etc. (& even Dhritaraashttra az an idiot & az an indulger of perpetrators, not az a cold blooded plotter though)} were !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sire, u also posted: “As Arjuna would have died if Karna had the armour, Indra went in disguise and got the last armour (the last one left of Sahasrakavacha of Dambodbhava which is the boon from sun god) of Karna, much before the war began.” ————— sire, plz enlighten me on the reason y Lord Indra took away Karna’s KUNDALs coz KUNDALs r not protective/defensive armours or anything of dat sort !!!!!!!!!!
Sire, I would also b very thankful shall u kindly xplain y moronic & vile Duryodhana did not instruct Guruu DronaAachaarya or his gr8 friend Ashwaththaamaa 2 kill half–demon Ghattotchkacha with their Brahmaastra or Brahmashiira–Astra or Guruu Dron’s Brahmaddandda or anything else; inst8 foolishly ordered Karna 2 spend/xhaust the latter’s solitary chance of using the infallible Vasava Shaktii, which Karna had actually reserved specially 4 Arjuna????? y did not the cunning Shakunii intervene & point out his nephew’s mistake & stop Karna from using the Vasava Shakty & urge Guruu Dron or Guruu Dron’s son Ashwaththaamaa 2 hurl/shoot Brahmaastra/BrahmashiiraAstra/Brahmaddandda????? Sir, plz relent on me & kindly answer/respond 2 dis inquisitive deadlock/logjam da8 haz developed inside my mind on this particular issue/question/query/topic !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sire, plz !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr. sheokhanda, I enjoyed each and every line that u have mentioned. Hats off to u!! Thank u for writing the truth about my Karna!!!
True mate , and you missed one point, on the eleventh day of the war, the sun god said that he would give his charoit, so that no one could see it directly. But, the man told that he will not resort to these tactics but would use his talent and skill.True to his word he almost KICKED ARJUNS ass, before Krishna came to his rescue. If everyone is telling that Arjun was superior then for why the hell did he attack KARNA, at his most vulnerable. In reality ARJUN never killed the man but the curses which he was bestowed led to his death.
Anga’s King Karn had promised his bio mom Kunti that he would never use any weapon against Arjun more than once —- the most powerful weapon that he’d used against Arjun on the 16th Day waz the Naagastr
Shalya , who was the charioteer of Karna, on the request of the moron Duryodhan, had, on the request of Yudhishtthiir, constantly been dampening the spirits of Karn {& even isolated Karn & the chariot on the 17th Day when the wheels got stuck} & when Karn waz about to hurl the Naagastra, he said that Karn should aim that at Arjun’s chest, az he waz irritating Karn, Karn decided to do the opposite & aimed it at Arjun’s neck —- Arjun waz caught napping [though not a sitting duck] 2 da Naagastra & thus Shrii Krishnn pressed the wheels of Arjun’s chariot 4~5 inches into the earth & the Naagastra only decimated Arjun’s crown instead of decapitating Arjun.
Arjun waz even rendered weaponless on the 16th Day but the Sun had set & Karn decided not to continue that day’s proceedings in conformation to the rules set by Atii Mahaarathii Bheeshma Mahaamahim b4 the start of war, unless, Arjun would have set out for Swargaloke that very day.
Karn broke Abhimanyu’s bow from behind possibly on Dron’s command. Karn & Dron most probably did not wholeheartedly attack & seriously fight ruthlessly against Abhi, caring about the latter’s tender age {perhaps}.
I don’t know how some morons & dullards say that Karn participated in the assail over Drupada —– he wazn’t Dron’s student, so how the hell can HE give guru dakshinaa to someother warriors’ guruu, who himself is the disciple of Karn’s preceptor , Bhagwaan Parashuraam????? Which logic on earth justifies such foolish thoughts??!!!!!!!!!
How can a respected king & a great warrior like Angaraaj AtiiMahaaRathy challenge a Brahmin youth who’s just won a bride —– there4, what logic can those people, who say that Arjun defeated Karn after Draupadi’s Swayamvar, present to counter my logic???!!!!!!!
As far as I know, Karn waz drunk during the Gandharva episode & in the Viraatt episode, Arjun made a shock attack & laid every opponent warrior 2 sleep using the Sammohana astra, so does dat make him a better warrior than Bheesma, Dron, Karn, Aswatthama, Kripachaarya etc. ?????
Draupadii had every right to reject Karna from participation in her swayamvara ——- she, & 4 dat matter noone or no woman, has any right by any stretch of imagination to insult his/her suitor just on the basis of the victim’s resume & origin & birth [regarding which, the criminal isn’t even fully abreast of]; this crime iz just not public insult, it is RACISM —- a crime 4 which criminals get CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, Rigorous life imprisonments etc. on many occasions in countries like USA etc..
As far as I know, Arjun’s chariot waz driven with the speed of mind & none other than Lord Hanumaan sat atop that Chariot holding the flag & none other than Lord Shree Krishnn having b-cum the charioteer, perhaps it was Lord Shree Krishnna’s own chariot — I’m not sure though, n–ewayz Arjuna’s chariot waz greatly divine & his Gaandiva bow waz also divine having been presented by Lord Agnii & had the divya magical aspect of some stuff that lay there in Khandacaprastha which protected the abode of the Naagas whatever; then y the hell did Lord Indra need to take away Karna’s KUNDALs??? I can, going by logic, understand that the KAVACH needed to be removed, lest, Karn would never die & thus never cease to combat, whereas all the Pandavas are mortals, consequently, evil would triumph over good, unri8eousness would’ve pummelled ri8eousness, which we cannot just let happen, OKAYY, but y the hell, acc 2 which logic on earth, did the KUNDAL need 2 b removed MANNN ????
y could not/did not Arjun counter Karn’s Naagastra with either the Garudaastra or Anjalika weapon or Aindraastra or Suryastra & y the hell did then Arjun not use [even in such great danger] Brahmaastra or BrahmaShir Astra or even the PaashupatAstra??????????? Would Arjun’ve happily accepted death at the hands of Karn, without using the PaashupatAstra just bcoz he deemed P’astra 2 b too devastating????? If dat waz so, y the hell did he, at Mahaa Brahma Rishy Veda Vyaasa’s hut/aashram, then reply to Aswaththaama’s BrahmaShira Astra with a counter BrahmaShira Astra????? Is Brahmashira Astra negligibly catastrophic to the general mass compared to the PaashupatAstra????????? Nopes, BrahmaShira Astra waz 4th power squared to the deadly Brahmaastra, so imagine what mayhem/carnage BrahmaShir Astra could usher in!!!!!
There is no excuse for inciting rape or dishonour of a woman in public or private. Raceism or castism or any ism is no excuse for condoning rape. Though born of Surya and Kunti, Angaraj Karna did instigate disgusting behaviour in the Kuru court by telling Dushashan to take off Draupadi’s clothes. Woman has a right to chose who she marries. Its her natural right. Draupadi chose NOT to be Mrs Suta. Karna’s ego was hurt and he could not accept that a woman he wanted to win and than hand over to Duryodhan as a ‘present’, said no to me. To take that as a personal insult and try and incite Kauravas to disgrace their own sister-in-law was base of Karna.
Like a lapdog of Duryodhan, Karna attacked Panchal and was defeated (Sambhava Parva – section CXL). Though he wasn’t a student of Drona, he joined the Kaurava forces and lost. Blindly following Duryodhan, he supported the Varnavat plot. Angraj attacked Arjun who had won Draupadi as his wife (Swayamvar Parva – CLXLII). Like a wretch, he plotted to rob the Pandavas of wealth and honour with Duryodhan and Shakuni in the the deceitful game of dice. Like a common lout, he instructed Dushashan to denude the Pandavas and Draupadi. (Sabha parva LXVII). Like a coward, he ran away when Duryodhan and his wives were captured by the Gandharvas. Do not make excuses that he was drunk – he ran away. Though boastful, he lost against Arjun dressed like a eunuch outside Virata. Proud and full of him-self, he became the general of Kuru armies for less than 2 days and lost his life to Arjun whom he never rated as a worthy warrior. Fool that he was, Karna never realised that his greatest enemy was his own ego.
If a villain robs you and cheats you, it is a shameful blot on his character – not yours. If crooked men feed you drugs disguised as sweets and than compromise your character, it is a shameful blot on their characters, not yours. Pandavas were robbed, cheated and fooled into loosing everything by Karna and his friends. They placed Yudhishthir in an impossible situation and he staked everything including his family, himself and his wife through the trickery of the Kauravas. To cheat a man and than to call him a fool shows the baseness of the man.
You are using the language of the Kauravas and saying if Draupadi had married anyone of them, they would never have staked her at a game. If Draupadi had married anyone of them, she would have been widowed after the battle of Mahabharata. Evil men that they were, Kauravas and their friends, including Radhey Karna, would have found any number of excuses to pick fights with Pandavas and would have fought them in Kurukshetra no matter who they had married. Draupadi was not the cause of the war – Kaurava greed was the cause of the war.
Kauntay Karna was born of a good mother and good father, but his nature and nurture were base. If by nature he had been good, he would never have instigated dishonour of a woman, any woman, in the Kuru court. Being base by nature, his speech was always rude, crude, insulting towards elders (Bhishma, Drona, Vidur etc). Suryaputra was defeated time and again and still boasted of his capabilities. For this reason, Bhishma and Drona never rated him highly. They were also students of Parashurama and knew what level of warrior Karna was.
Ultimately Karna was defeated by his ego, pride and false sense of loyalty to a wicked man. IF Karna was a good friend to Duryodhan, he should have advised him better. But he wasn’t. He was a ‘yes-man’, who agreed with his boss no matter how crazy the idea. He was a ‘lapdog’, who wagged his tail at everything Duryodhan said and salivated at the prospect of ‘pleasing his master’. All his plans fell flat on their face and his master was badly served by a man who did not have the brains or the brawn to defeat the Pandavas (as can be seen in several battles before the final one.)
I am sad to see that scholarly debate is shouted down in this blog and pro-Karna fans are jumping up and down everytime they are shown any proof against their hero. They even doubt the accepted versions of the Itihaas and claim to know more than the scholars who have studied several variants of the texts to come to a good conclusion. It is unfortunate that they have the same pathological hatred towards Pandavas and Draupadi and do not see the facts history has laid before them.
Never mind. I suppose its their choice to willfully delude themselves.
@Ling Raj Mahaaraaj!!! plz reply 2 my points in this thread with logic!! were u present during the Bharata War or the events of any of the 18 parvas?? Have u seen Mr. K.M. Ganguli translating right from the several thousand years old ORIGINAL MAHAABHAARATA of MahaaMahaa Rishii Veda Vyaasa from the early Iron Age of India??? Have u, O racist|casteist, misanthropist, female-chauvinist, bigot Sire of legendary repute, any replies against my logic??? How the hell can a student of Lord Parashuraama try to give guruu daksinaa 2 Aachaarya Drona??? R u out of ur mind???? Would u believe anything & everything u read/view???? Don’t u what diabolic % of present day scholars & directors & producers largely contradict Mr. Ganguli’s so-called ORIGINAL TRANSLATION??? so, r these modern scholars fools in your opinion, O sire of gr8 energy???? Do u know what punishment is given when some1 mocks the disabilities & medical-shortcomings of a blind or a disabled or handicapped or a challenged person that too publicly??? Do you know which crime is more heinous —- calling a woman ‘whore’ or RACISM????? How the hell did u even dare 2 say “FACTS ARE FACTS”??? R u MahaaMahaaRishy Veda Vyaasa reborn or a modern day Avataar of Lord Shree Ganesha???? Sure there can b no xcuse 4 incitement of dishonour of a woman or 4 dat matter any person, even a man, even a 7ft tall 52 chested man, in public or private —– bcoz of that Karna lost his right 2 utter the word ‘dharma dharma dharma………… ‘ ‘rules rules rules…………. ‘ etc. —- he got his due punishment for his offence, however the offence by Draupadii & her daasy{if at all that “blind’s son” barb/rant abusive remark whatever waz made by D’s daasy instead of herself} were millions of tymz worse & that iz y Draupadii had to bear that kind of a brunt —- shame, losing all her sons[though those 5 Upapaandava’s assassination too waz a heinous crime committed by Ashwaththaamaa], infact Yudhiishtthira got so furious on Kuntii on learning about Karna’s birth that he cursed all women, do u agree???? BTW, Mr. Raj, u said that a woman can chose her husband —- sure she can & surely she can reject anyone without even any justification; but if she at all choses 2 supply a justification/answer, she has to stay within the confines of the Laws & Legislations —– if she bcumz a perpetrator of a criminal sort of stuff, that too an unbelievably heinous crime as RACISM, she should be either decapitated/beheaded or sentenced 2 life or rigorously imprisoned 4 life ——- however, I do accept that despite that heinous a crime, no man or 4 dat matter no person, not even that concerned victim of RACISM|CASTEISM, can turn legal custodians/guardians & decide 2 give a punishment that is itself a crime —- coz that punishment itself too iz a law & rights violation much akin 2 da original CRIME & a crime cannot justify another crime —– I accept & admit these things —— but the mentally sick person that u r, u ren’t even calling RACISM|CASTEISM a crime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lord Shree Krishnna!!!!!!! U should b hanged till death coz u r carnageous & catastrophic to the system, the legal setup, the legislations, the penal code, the regulations, the society & the basic units of democracy/sat-taa, i.e.; the general people!!! U do not even know the deprivations that the victims of RACISM or CASTEISM have to face day in day out —— if u r so interested on women’s sufferings, tell me then doesn’t ur heart cey 4 Maataa Raadhaa who sacrificed her childhood heartthrob love as handsome as Lord Shree Krishnna himself, 4 da sake of the prajaa of vile King Kan’s kingdom???? I feel sorry 4 all kinds of victims —- even 4 Draupadii, but as far as womenfolk r concerned, Maataa Seeta, Gandhaary, even Kuntii, even Subhadra, Maataa Raadhaa, Karna’s foster mom Raadhaa, Hiiddiimbaa, Laxmana’s consort cum Maataa Seetaa’s sis etc. all were far more serious victims coz they were innocent to a large extent too ————- Kuntii committed only 1 foolishness in her childish nature & the others listed are, I opine, completely innocent ——— doesn’t ur heart cry 4 these women???? r u a sympathizer of only the vile women who initiate a strife by committing a crime first up???
yajna93 –
Just as I wasn’t there during the war of Mahabharata, nor were you or any current author you consider to be pro or anti Karna. Yvasa was there and what he wrote is what I go by. Having read the Sanskrit and English translations side by side, I know which translations I trust.
Anyone who considers being called by your surname as an insult worthy of rape or physical assault is seriously deranged. Your crude and rude posts do not merit replies. Believe what you will. Facts will not change because of your rants.
@Ling Mahaaraaj!!! u utterred the sentence: “when any proof iz given against their hero, Karna” ——- wht proof do u have??? the debatable questionable easily-challengable translation by K.M. Ganguli, i guess??????!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFL!!!!!!! I accept ur point that the cause of war waz not Draupadii —— it waz Duryodhana & Shakunii’s quest, or much rather I should coin the term ‘greed’!! I, in my previous posts, never stated Draupadii 2 b a cause ——- coz if thought wid logic, if that RACIST idiot but a victim too, had been THE CAUSE, then y the hell would ‘ve Lord Shrii Krishnna & Maataa Kuntii etc. gone with several alluring offers 2 Karna just b4 the War, offers like the Chakravarty IMPERIALISM/SAAMRAAJYA of the whole of Aaryavata & also sleeping with Draupadii, if Karn chose 2 stay neutral 2 both the 2 warring parties or even better switch his party/side!!!! Donen’t ur heart cry 4 the baanjj women who r humiliated??? Doesn’t ur heart cry 4 da innocent sufferers/victims/patients of BREAST CANCER??? Doesn’t ur heart cry 4 da women who die or get handicapped during pregnancy or delivery???? Duryodhana committed another crime by staking his consort Bhaanuumaty —– y the hell did u not mention that CRIME AGAINST WOMEN?? y doesn’t ur heart cry 4 innocent women victims??? y do u always feel sorry 4 VICIOUS VILE CRIMINAL WOMEN who r DANGEROUS PRECARIOUS DETRIMENTAL 2 da society & the well-being of people, especially deprived people, especially deprived oppressed people who have the talent to go big & change inhibitions of the society [rags 2 riches, much akin 2 Karna or the Rs. 5Crore Winner of KBC 2011 etc.or scientist Meghnaad Saahaa etc.] Good God, may our gr8 Lord Shree Krishnna may relent upon u, i fear 4 a people-hating person like u, coz not only r u perilous 2 da society, u, if exposed, can incurr the wrath of the law abiding bulk of the population, however, do not get cold sweats, rather, try 2 usher in a change in urself & try 2 treat all victims az victims & all criminals az criminals 4 ur own & of course the society’s well-being!!!!!
Yajna93, Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.
You keep asking all and sundry to ‘produce proof’ about their versions of the Mahabharata, what proof do you offer about your version?
Maybe you have forgotten that others besides you and your friends also have the capacity and capability to research and understand what Vyasa had to say ‘between the lines’. Your research is so flawed that you have not even figured out that Shri Krishna never had a girlfriend called ‘Radha’. Vyasa wrote Mahabharata and Bhagvatam and he does not mention her in either. Radha is an invention of poet Jayadeva and Bhaktiacharyas. If this is the level of your research, I would have serious reservations about anything you have to say about Mahabharata.
In your various posts, you talk about victimhood and people not feeling sad enough for everyone (by this you usually mean Karna). Well let me ask you – how sorry do YOU feel for other victims of injustice like Pandavas or Draupdi? Or are they already exempt from kindness for having opposed your hero? Are you now going to dispense justice as readily as you dispense your views or rights and wrongs?
There is no point in arguing with an ignoramus and so I doubt if I will bother to respond to your pointless posts in the future.
@Ling Raaj hey Mahaaraaj!!! from where the hell did u find that several thousand year old Mahaabhaarat of Maharshii VedaVyaasa??? the translation u read —– have u seen the translator translate ri8 from that early Iron Age gr8 poem by the gr8 Vyaasa???? as to our evidences, we too have only a personal interpretations of authors u, Mr. Ling Raaj would I’ sure would hate, just like u would b able 2 show only personal works & translations!!!!!!!!!!!!! So, the evidences of the anti–Karna fans & pro–Karna fans get nullified!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so then, wht remains in that case???????????? belief ————— belief & thoughts & ideology of the mass which, in democracies, iz the most decisive aspect ———————— plz conduct a survey of how many sarcastic or satirical remarks/taunts or harsh replies or foul language etc. u get by telling people from house to house, street to steet, locality to locality, municipal ward to ward, block to block, subdivision to subdivision, distrct to district, in any division or province/state or zone in India, telling each & every people what u urself told me on this thread in this forum: “Lord Shrii Krishnna never had a lover/girlfriend named Raadhaa” —– just count the no. of slaps u get from people in that survey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! & BTW, since people’s belief iz the most important, that iz simply n exactly the reason y the information(s) from wikipedia WOULD B TAKEN TO BE ULTIMATE by all n sundry, though I even believe that the information(s) from even wikipedia too ought 2 b logically pondered over!!!!!!!!!!! & as to my research Mr. Ling Mahaaraaj, I do not believe believe in blindly trusting neither the so-called AUTHENTIC TRANSLATIONS, nor the present day books nor of course the soaps nor even any information on Wikipedia or any forum blindly; rather I like 2 use my brain & thinking, which u r reluctant to, even K.M. Ganguli’s books I logically thought over & accepted some stuff & also rejected some stuff —— I DID NOT straightaway accept anything or reject everything unlike u, O Mahaaraaj of gr8 repute as a “LEGENDARY” Mahaabhaarata–translation reasearcher & society–hater !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Ling Mahaaraaj!!! u said: In your various posts, you talk about victimhood and people not feeling sad enough for everyone (by this you usually mean Karna). Well let me ask you – how sorry do YOU feel for other victims of injustice like Pandavas or Draupdi? Or are they already exempt from kindness for having opposed your hero? Are you now going to dispense justice as readily as you dispense your views or rights and wrongs?
In my previous posts, I spoke of Draupadii not hust az a criminal but also az a victim, did u not notice that???? this is how u research, Mr. Ling???? u do not read between the lines & call other logical arguers “ignoramous”???!!!!!! LOL!! & BTW, az far az the Paandavas are concerned, read my post on who’s the hero of mahaabhaarata wherein i wrote: nopes yaarr, Mahaabhaarat haz great many a no. of heroes —- Karn iz among the very best of them & although I’m a Karn & Bheeshm fan, i still think Arjuna waz the greatest HERO az he waz the ONE who ended up fighting in compliance with/conforming to Lord Shree Krishnna’s path & role & purpose & ideology & thought process & teachings & preachings & prophecies etc.
One who fights for himself is Duryodhana
One who fi8z 4 his flatterer iz Ashwaththaama
One who fights for his brother’s whims n fancies is Vikarna
One who fights for his dad’s whims n fancies is Laksmana[Gandhaarii’s eldest grandson]
One who fights for his breadgiver is DronaAacharya
One who fights for his brother’s rights is Bheema
One who fights without question just bcoz of being a commander of Naaraayanii Sena’s legion [under the imperial control of Duryodhana by Shrii Krishnna’s chice] is Kritavarma
One who fights blindly on his father’s summoning is Ghatothkacha
One who fights in compliance with his father’s oath is Vriishasena
One who fights for his step-mom’s justice is Abhimanyuu
One who fights for truth & his subjects’ well-being is Yudhishtthiir
One who fights against his vile bro & for the pioneer of truth & ri8eousness is Yuyutsu
One who fights to fulfill his vow of security to his step-bro’s family is Bheeshma
One who fights to fulfill his word/swearing of allegiance/bondage to his friend is Karna
BUT
One who fights to fulfill the purpose & role of the birth n presence of Lord Vishnuu’s 8th & greatest ever Avataar is Arjuna
Despite these posts of mine, u said that i dislike the pandavas & do not feel 4 their plight az they were an opposite party to my favourite hero [BTW, my favourite character iz not Karn, rather it is Lord Shrii Krishnna in his baalyaavasthhaa] —— this completely proves & justifies ur myopic vision & what quality of reasearch or reading iz feasible by u!!!! BTW, o sire, az I’ve already said, my grandma’s friend’s uncle, scientist Prof. Meghnad Saha, humiliated bcoz of being a lower sect/community by modern day Draupadii like anti–social anti–national medeival–mindset-possessing morons, he bcame so famous & attained so much success & gave such gr8 performances & contributions that he waz an example of shedding of medeival inhibitions, just like kArna, who despite being lower caste, went on 2 bcum the whole of Aaryavarta’s legions’ armed–foreces’ GENERALISSIMO in the gr8 Bharata War!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! & people like u & Draupadii r anti–socials & anti–nationals & anti–deprived-classes etc. however, the pAandavas were gr8 victimz as well ——- they lost their father at a very tender age & when they went back 2 da empire’s capital, expecting love & affection from 100 additional brothers, all they got ever & anon waz malice & hatred & jealousy & crookedness & cunningness & assassination plots/attempts & internecine-stifes & humiliation & deprivation, even by the Emperor Dhriitaaraashtra, their taauu-g though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no 6–7–8 year old boy & 4 da8 matter 5 bros of that tender ages, may, by Lord Shree Krishnna’s grace, be subjected to such torture & villanity & wickedness in any corner anywhere in this mortal Universe, I pray such 2 our gr8 Lord so that no young boy may face that horrendous plight of the teenage or adolescent or childhood paandavas; but the plight faced by Karna waz however unique, I doubt whether at all there would ever b a person like him again who would face a plight hundreds of thousands of tymz worse than that of the Paandavas but still excel like those 5 Paandavas combined 2gether!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moron, shah where did u came from? First of all thoroughly read Mahabharata, don’t blindly comment by seeing stupid TV serials.
Yes, he lied to get education because of drona’s refuge for teaching, here it clearly describes drons ‘s point of view towards lower category people . He don’t want to teach poor people who are more capable enough than Arjuna in skills. (ex eklavyaby born genius, karna etc may be who knows). Then to get education he went to parshurama.
Now just imagine you born in Sudra category in 21st gen like Karna who was in dwapar yuga, you want to get education but government doesn’t allow you to get educated because you born in Sudra category, what will you do? Think practically.
Moron,The above answers is for only to your 1st point…. And also i dont want to argue with foolish people who blindly read does’nt understand.
Forget Mahabharata/ Karna,
Assume yourself to be highly talented. Yet if a girl criticises you in public by calling you a “Sutra” and “a person who doesnt know his birth” what will you do to her?
For me – Karna’s act on Draupadi was (a bit too much), yet understandable given his talent and valor.
You know one thing – Draupadi also humiliated Duryodhan – the reason why he wanted to strip her. Thats again a long story.
Draupadi should have been killed (but not stripped ofcourse).
Dear reader, the post is on Mahabharat and the answers will be as per post.
As far as my condition, well One would show the female in question what TRUE ROYALTY is and will keep on showing that till the end of the times. (I suppose you got the answer)
One can only say that a LADY should never have to go through it. A lady who is a true woman in all sense. (which includes if she is a brave and fierce warrior but is NOT egoistic)
Are you saying that if someone calls you paki or brown or golly wog – you will kill them for it ?
seriously ?
So Sai, if a woman rebuffs your approaches or a man refuses to be your friend, you advocate physical injury or death for them ?
Seriously ?
Draupadi was at her svayamvar – her own svayamvar – where she could chose to marry who she wanted. She did not want to marry Karna. Big deal. She referred to him as everyone was referred to in those days – by their parentage.
Duryodhan was allowed to compete and he nearly hit the mark – but missed it.
He had no reason to feel aggrieved.
Draupadi was a women. A talented, accomplished, beautiful princess. She, like any other woman in the world, had the right to chose her life partner. If she did not chose Karna, that was a choice he had to respect.
And it doesn’t really matter who you are, if you can’t control your temper, what sort of values are you displaying ? Plenty of talented people have had plenty of insults thrown at them. They have retaliated by showing how magnanimous they are – not how vindictive ! Men of valor – true valor – do not go around striping women or insulting wives of other men. Nor fo that go around killing women for spurning their approaches. Vengeance of the sort you are calling for would show the person to be worse than suta.
Just stop calling Draupadi talented, accomplished, beautiful princess. There were more beautiful princess out there..
For eg:
1. Ganga was far more pure (but she could be called child killer by some).
2. Gandhari was far more devoted to her husband, that she blinded her self with a cloth.
3. Amba was very pretty princess in love and she became the reason for Bhisma’s death.
4. Rukmani was far more talented,accomplished and Beautiful and not egoistic. She knew her husband Lord Krishna was god but never ever she threw that at other’s faces or was egoistic.
5. Even Kunti for that matter was ok baring what she did to Karna.
6. Satyawati,who married Shantanu father of Bhisma look at the way she behaved, she was flawed in some ways but she maintained her grace, dignity and poise.
The only reason we debate here about Draupadi is that she was a woman and she was “attempted” to be stripped (as Krishna “saved” her )PERIOD. Her behavior and anger was not how a princess ought to be.
She was highly egoistic. The way you put it, it seems you encourage young girls to be like Draupadis…. I just wonder for the poor men who will have to face such a woman’s ill-tempered judgement which would propagate EGOISM to the core.
Stop angelising her. She was no angel, but yes she was a woman who was attempted to be stripped. So from that point of view there comes the issue of ethics.
A woman needs to be a lady just as according to your definition a man needs to behave and show valor.
In reality Draupadi was PERFECT match for Duryodhan. Both egoistic, they would have lived happily ever after.
When you say in swamvar, a woman has right to choose whom she marries, ok fine. But she doesnot have any right to humiliate. The moment she does that, she ceases to be a princess in a true way and becomes WORSE than SUTRA.
The point where you said :
if you can’t control your temper, what sort of values are you displaying ?
I think Lord Krishna himself lost control and in a fit of rage he went after to kill Bhishma (even though he did not kill him). Do you wish to say that Lord Krishna had LOW values ?
The another point:
Plenty of talented people have had plenty of insults thrown at them. They have retaliated by showing how magnanimous they are – not how vindictive.
For starters this is not Ramayana, where Ram would forgive everything but would still be called “Oppressor of woman“. In Mahabharata it is dark.
Even though you may be right a man should not do that, but a woman who insults a man is NO better. If you wish to propagate “equality” then JUSTICE must be equal, otherwise it is pseudo-intellectualism.
Amba took her REVENGE didn’t she, she took rebirth as Shikhandi and killed Bhisma. Do you care to tell her. DONOT do that…. forgive Bhishma, be a woman of valor or be lady… as the world knew Bhisma had taken a VOW. Why did Amba not pay heed to reason ?
Why did she became the REASON for his death ?
i want to no that where the hell did karan kavach kundal suddenly vanished or inder god had kept to protect his life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lolz reply me lolzzzz
“Draupadi was at her svayamvar – her own svayamvar – where she could chose to marry who she wanted. She did not want to marry Karna. Big deal. She referred to him as everyone was referred to in those days – by their parentage.”
SVAYAMVARA PARVA – VYASA MAHABHARATA:
“And Drupada said, ‘He that will string this bow and with these well-adorned arrows shoot the mark above the machine shall obtain my daughter.”
And beholding the plight of those monarchs, Karna that foremost of all wielders of the bow went to where the bow was, and quickly raising it strung it and placed the arrows on the string. And beholding the son of Surya–Karna of the Suta tribe–like unto fire, or Soma, or Surya himself, resolved to shoot the mark, those foremost of bowmen–the sons of Pandu–regarded the mark as already shot and brought down upon the ground. But seeing Karna, Draupadi loudly said, ‘I SVAYAMVARA PARVA-
“And Drupada said, ‘He that will string this bow and with these well-adorned arrows shoot the mark above the machine shall obtain my daughter.”
And beholding the plight of those monarchs, Karna that foremost of all wielders of the bow went to where the bow was, and quickly raising it strung it and placed the arrows on the string. And beholding the son of Surya–Karna of the Suta tribe–like unto fire, or Soma, or Surya himself, resolved to shoot the mark, those foremost of bowmen–the sons of Pandu–regarded the mark as already shot and brought down upon the ground. But seeing Karna, Draupadi loudly said, ‘I will not select a Suta for my lord.’ Then Karna, laughing in vexation and casting glance at the Sun, threw aside the bow already drawn to a circle. a Suta for my lord.’ Then Karna, laughing in vexation and casting glance at the Sun, threw aside the bow already drawn to a circle.”
LOOK AT THE CONDITION OF THE SWAYAMWARA. YES, SHE HAD THE RIGHT TO SAY NO, BUT SHE CUD HAV SAID ‘I WILL NOT SELECT THIS MAN FOR MY LORD’. BUT SHE DIDN’T, SHE CHOSE TO CALL CASTE NAME.
Draupadii had every right to reject Karna from participation in her swayamvara ——- she, & 4 dat matter noone or no woman, has any right by any stretch of imagination to insult his/her suitor just on the basis of the victim’s resume & origin & birth [regarding which, the criminal isn’t even fully abreast of]; this crime iz just not public insult, it is RACISM —- a crime 4 which criminals get CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, Rigorous life imprisonments etc. on many occasions in countries like USA etc..
would you seriously kill someone because they jilted you ? So you would given an order to kill all the women that refused to marry you ?
If you were to fall or trip at a dance and the people laughed at you for making a fool of yourself, would you seriously kill all those who laughed at you ?
Grow up !
In life if people laugh at you, you improve yourself so that they feel ashamed of having laughed at you. Civilised people don’t order the rape, molestation or death of people who laugh at them, only gundas and bullies do that.
BTW – all surnames reveal the caste of a person. Caste is simply your ancestral profession. If someone’s surname is Smith, should they feel insulted if someone called them by their surname? Should Mr Butler feel insulted if Mr Knight referred to him by surname in a meeting? Should Mr Chahad or Daruwala feel insulted if you refer to them by their surname?
Suta was a surname!
So Druapadi did not want to be Mrs Suta! No need to take it out on her years later by instigating public disrobing !!!!
Draupadii had every right to reject Karna from participation in her swayamvara ——- she, & 4 dat matter noone or no woman, has any right by any stretch of imagination to insult his/her suitor just on the basis of the victim’s resume & origin & birth [regarding which, the criminal isn’t even fully abreast of]; this crime iz just not public insult, it is RACISM —- a crime 4 which criminals get CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, Rigorous life imprisonments etc. on many occasions in countries like USA etc..
Draupadii had every right to reject Karna from participation in her swayamvara ——- she, & 4 dat matter noone or no woman, has any right by any stretch of imagination to insult his/her suitor just on the basis of the victim’s resume & origin & birth [regarding which, the criminal isn’t even fully abreast of]; this crime iz just not public insult, it is RACISM —- a crime 4 which criminals get CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, Rigorous life imprisonments etc. on many occasions in countries like USA etc..
@Sai ohhh yes, Draupadii the RACIST|CASTEIST & PHYSICAL-DISABILITY-TAUNTER should have been beheaded{decapitated} or hung till death or thrown into a pyre of fire but certainly not stripped or disrobed —— one crime does not justify the other & wht waz meted out to her as ‘punishment’ by self–appointed legal guardians in the Kuruu court waz itself a crime in itself & this crime 4 crime iz no justice; it should much rather have been death 4 crime, but no disrobing/stripping 4 crime however!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your pathological dislike for Draupadi is amazing ! That as maybe – you are entitled to it – no matter how illogical.
Your surname – even now – tells people where you came from, what job your ancestors may have done, what honours they may have earned etc. This is the same in the east as west – hence you have plenty of Patels, Shahs, Trivedi, Singh, Hajji, Ali, Yamin, Amir, Khan, Smith, Knight, Huntly, Cohen, Levi etc. So when you call a CEO of a financial company “Mr Smith” – are you insulting them by reminding them of their origin ? Ofcourse not ! It is a term of reference as to who they are.
Suta-putra was a term of reference as to who Karna was brought as. Draupadi did not know Karna at the svayamvar – this was the first time she had met him in person ! As a woman who was given the chance to choose who she marries – she chose not to marry Mr Suta. She didn;t like that surname. Her choice. She was entitled to it ! Maybe she didn’t like the way he looked. Maybe she didn’t like what she heard about him from others. Her friends would have given her the resume of all the suitors at the svayamvar for sure. Remember – Karna was there when the Kauravas tried to conquer Panchal and were defeated and maybe she didn’t like what she heard from that war.
When you were looking for a wife, if your relatives tried to arrange a “meeting” and the woman rejected you – for whatever reason – would you take it out on her years later by asking the people of your building to strip her and incite them to rape her just because she turned you down all those years ago ? Or would you take it out on a girl who refused to dance with you at a college party or refused to share a bus seat with you because she didn’t like the way you were looking at her – or whatever her reasons for rejecting your advances ?
To feel the “insult” of the svayamwar years later and to take it out on her by saying – strip her in public and ask her to sit on your naked thigh – is way below what a man of honour should do.
Of the other great women you have mentioned, Gandhari utterly failed in her duty as a wife and a mother. She volunteered to share her husband’s blindness rather than be his eyes and help him. She failed to control her brood and teach them how to share and be kind to their unfortunate cousins who were fatherless and in need of family support. Remember – Pandavas kept Gandhari and Dhrutarastra in royal comfort even after their sons were dead. Kauravas, Gandhari and Dhrutarastra did not extend the same kindness to Kunti while her sons were in exile.
Amba came back to kill Bhishma. Fine – it was her choice to do so – call it karmic retribution. BUT – what a waste a life long taapa and darshan of Shiva to ask for revenge ! She could have asked for moksha instead.
I can go on about others too – but why waste my breath – you wont listen to reason or logic as you have a pathological dislike for Draupadi and Pandavas.
Draupadii had every right to reject Karna from participation in her swayamvara ——- she, & 4 dat matter noone or no woman, has any right by any stretch of imagination to insult his/her suitor just on the basis of the victim’s resume & origin & birth [regarding which, the criminal isn’t even fully abreast of]; this crime iz just not public insult, it is RACISM —- a crime 4 which criminals get CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, Rigorous life imprisonments etc. on many occasions in countries like USA etc..
it is u, O Mr. Bhagwat Shah, the legendary warrior that u r, resembling none other than Kartavirya Arjuna himself, who doesn’t listen to & respond to logic!!!!!!!
Here again, the WAY you put it, it is Karna’s fault, he is the one who is wrong to have been born in this world. Those around are all righteous, pious and honorable people. So what if they called him names so what if they tore his spirit apart , so what if they WRONGED him, so what if they killed him and humiliated him.
He will always be wrong in other people’s eyes who wish to see Draupadi as victim…..Draupadi only claim to fame was Pandavs and “Krishna” whom she called him “brother”
(as he said no to her marriage proposal from her, very shrewd move…..)
Karna was a great warrior and will always remain so. It is the reason that people give their sons’ name Karna but they think twice before giving their daughters draupadi (Though some ignorant buffoons do that without understanding the havoc it would cause in the life of those associated with the egoistic woman).
You can keep on WRONGING karna and I will keep on fighting for him. The reason the WORLD was with Draupadi since start and even when she was horribly wrong most of the times, but there was No-one with Karna (barring Duryodhan), even though on many occasion he was always RIGHT.
The irony of today is that these FEM-NAZIS like to IDEALIZE Draupadi, they think that her misjudgement and her ego is the correct way forward for “WOMAN EMPOWERMENT”.
You maybe also of the crop.
So keep on doing so because those of the likes of me will keep on fighting for karnas of today, for Son of “SUN” god.
Plenty of people humiliated Krushna and called him all sorts of names – including Kauravas. On account of his early years, they called him a gwala and not a true Yadava. They called him a coward for running away from battle. They said being a Yadava, Krushna was not fit to sit amongst Kings. Krushna never took it out on these people or plotted to rob them of their wealth or strip them naked or poison them to death. He wanted India to have a Dhrama-Rajya and so worked towards that noble goal. If need be, he fought his enemies face to face and killed those he had to. With others, he reasoned and sometimes even turned a foe into a friend. Even though Duryodhan hated and insulted him, Krushna gave him his army as requested because that is what you do as a man of honour.
Karna never learned to control his temper or his tongue. Unlike Krushna, he never reconciled with his upbringing. Unlike Bhishma, he never reconciled with an absent “parent” figure. Unlike Pandavas, he never reconciled with other people’s dislike for him.
Karna spoke of valor and dharma, but always took full part in underhanded activities and followed what he knew to be adharma. Unless your head, heart and actions are in line, you will always be confused and will always be upset with life.
mahaabaly Bheem also did not know how 2 control his toungue/temper nor did Paanchaaly or Nakula!! Even my personal role models Lord Shree Krishnn & Lord NaraSingha Avataar & Lord Parashuuraam lost their temper 2 an unimaginable extent though I admit for justifiable reasons!!! It waz not da8 Karn did not RECONCILE with his upbringing, he waz not angered when called a SUTAPUTRA, rather he got enraged when someone like a Bheem or Nakul or Kriipaa or Drona or even his foster father Adhiirath etc. forbade him 2 do/possess/try/win/learn/earn/challenge/combat/question befitting deserved justifiable appropriate knowledge/fame/illegal,rights violating oppressive depriving RACIST acts|deeds/power/weapon/education/glory etc. —- he got furious whenever he was deprived of something over which all n sundry human beings ought to have rights, only on the basis of his lineage & parentage & birth & origin!!! May I correct u Sire, Bhiishma had at least one parent —- even Satyavatii would b considered a parent of Bheeshma according to rules n regulations & legislations!!!!! & the Pandavas never reconciled with other persons’ hatred 4 them —- only Yudhishtthiira 2 a good xtent & Kuntii did da8 SUCCESSFULLY & the rest had 2 give into 2 their mom & eldest bro’s directives/wishes/whims n fancies !!!!!!! C, I’ve countered all your 4 above metaphors/comparisons !!!!!!!
well said karna is indeed the gretest warrior
I do not think, O legendary sire of immeasurable wrath, that present World’s people view Draupady from a purely protagonistic angle —- there r many many many people, perhaps a diabolical % of people who nowadays consider Draupady 2 b more antagonistic than protagonistic in many wayz than other —- it iz bcoz of that wretch that her step-sons tenderly young but immeasurably gallant Abhimanyuu & valiant cum mighty half–demon Ghatothkacha laid down their should-have-been-great lives; it iz that wretch who committed an unmentionable crime against a gr8 warrior in front of the whole of Aaryavarta!!! It is nthat wretch who reportedly wanted & perhaps lusted on Lord Shrii Krishnna, despite knowing how loyal Lord Shrii Krishnna waz to Kulvadhuus Rukminii, Satyabhaamaa etc. & how he had to sacrifice his childooh sensational hearththrob love Raadhaa just 4 da sake of the innocent Prajaa or general mass & their well-being!!! Despite being a Chakravarty Samraggy, she never thought about the well being of her subjects ————– a stark contrast to her ELDEST HUSBAND!!!!! That iz y no dad or mom names their newbeei daughter ‘Draupadii’
Good post with thoughtful, patient and concerned comments. Good discussion.
Thank you for reading my blog and pinging me, otherwise i would have never read this post. Thanks for the post.
Karna gets the sympathy votes. He was not as great as some people think. He was a great warrior but not the best warrior of Mahabharata. Kripa and Bhima insulted Karna when he entered in rangshala without invitation and challenged Arjuna. Arjuna never harmed him. It was Karna who always challanged him but failed to defeat him everytime in wars. He was suffering from inferiority complex. Karna even conspired with Duryodhana and Shakuni to kill pandavas in lakshagrih. Was it proper for Karna to kill a person just because his brother had called him son of a suta? His act of humiliation of a helpless woman in public is also not not justified. He could not defeat Abhimanyu and cut down Abhimanyu’s bow from behind. He was one of the six maharathis who unitedly attacked Abhimanyu.
Karna was not invincible. He lost to Bhima and Satyaki on 14th day of battle. Bhima again defeated him on 17th day. Karna could not save Jayadratha and Duryodhana’s brothers on 14th day. Arjuna defeated Karna twice in Kurukshetra before their final encounter. Karna’s so called inpenetrable kavach and kundal seems to be only a myth as Karna lost to Chitrasena and again to Arjuna before the kurukshetra war, when Karna had his ‘kavach and kundal’.
could you mention the sources of your points ?
Sheokhanda,
You have read all the versions of Mahabharata and know the stories inside out. Surely you know that Karna was defeated several times by several people before his precious kavach was taken away.
1. Point where you say that Arjun never harmed him. It depends upon your definition of harm. If you mean physical harm then Arjun was too arrogant in fighting Karna in the first place. When Karna tried to challenge him, Bhishma and kripacharya protected Arjun in rangshala. Arjun harmed him by his words of humiliation ( and if that does not comes into your category of harm, then let me point out that many wars have begun because such harms were not taken into consideration)
2. Karna who always challenged him but failed to defeat him everytime in wars:
I mean this point has been going on and on for like centuries (much like an egoistic person’s drum), many authors have also said that Arjun was nothing if Eklavya’s thumb was not cut. Arjun’s plus point was that many were there to “protect” him. There was Krishna always there to help him, then his brother. In short Karna and Arjun came face to face in full blow on 17th day of the war in which Karna was killed ( due to deception and his kavach was taken by Indra, father of Arjun).
3. Karna even conspired with Duryodhana and Shakuni to kill pandavas in lakshagrih. Was it proper for Karna to kill a person just because his brother had called him son of a suta ?
Well, this answer I have given in above comments, plus fighting since Arjun called him son of Sutra. Well yes, it was proper for him to do so because you see for some honor is of more importance. By calling him such words,Arjun challenged karna’s honour. (people who understand what honour is will not bring this topic again. Additionally didn’t Arjun got all charged up when Karna called Draupadi a whore. Why did he get so upset, will he kill a person just because someone called his wife a WHORE ? Think about it)
4. His act of humiliation of a helpless woman in public is also not not justified:
I presume that you have not clearly analyzed Karna’s actions in that situation. Many writers and thinker have said and it was mentioned that Karna had taken a stand in his heart that if draupadi asks for his help then he would help her. Instead she insulted him there too, then he choose not to help her. I fail to understand, why such a crucial piece of information is not shown or written about often. Everybody is just pounding on the opportunity to demonize karan. (If this point would have been mentioned then, the egoistic angle of Draupadi would have come into fore front. Through certain preachers choose to ignore it, as it would have diluted there “larger” point of protecting a women. Thereby subsiding the egoistic woman’s actions)
5. He could not defeat Abhimanyu and cut down Abhimanyu’s bow from behind. He was one of the six maharathis who unitedly attacked Abhimanyu.
I accept that Abhimanyu was ganged up and killed but Karna was not to be blamed, Alone. Why do the writers absolve dronacharya (because he is teacher of Arjun and it would put him in bad light and again play with the larger message, imagine your own teacher responsible for the death of you beloved son. A teacher whom you treated like a god. Just because the teacher wanted to prove a point ) ?
Yes he did cut Abhimanyu’s bow from behind, but barring that nothing more. He did it to protect Duryodhan who was on the verge of getting killed by Abhimanyu. He did not kill Abhimanyu, rather it was the Kauravas who did it. Why did Kripacharya, Dronacharya or any other “wisemen” not stop them ? Why is their action not fallacious in nature ? Infact I believe that their actions are far more condemnable.
Duronacharya built that chakravyuh, which killed Abhimanyu (shouldn’t he be held accountable for Abhimayu;s death ?)
6. Karna was not invincible. He lost to Bhima and Satyaki on 14th day of battle. Bhima again defeated him on 17th day. Karna could not save Jayadratha and Duryodhana’s brothers on 14th day. Arjuna defeated Karna twice in Kurukshetra before their final encounter.
Let me get back to you on these points. In order to address it I might have to write a post.
7. Karna’s so called inpenetrable kavach and kundal seems to be only a myth as Karna lost to Chitrasena and again to Arjuna before the kurukshetra war, when Karna had his ‘kavach and kundal’.
My dear if that is so, then why did Krishna advised Indra to get it from Karna ? Please explain.
1. It was Bhima and Kripa and not Arjuna who called Karna the son of a charioteer(sut putra).
2.These small issues can not be a valied reason to take someone’s life. The actual reason behind the Karna’s animosity for Arjuna was his jelousy.
3. I do not support Draupadi as she had done many wrong things. But that does not mean that kaurava should molest her.
4. Karna was a great maharathi, perhapes better than even Drona at times. But his over all performence in Mahabharata does not prove that he was better than Arjuna.
5. Karna lost to Arjuna in Virat war when he had his kavach and kundal and Arjuna was not with Krishna.
6. Karna along with Duryodhana and his brothers lost to Gandharvas. Arjuna defeated them without the help of Krishna.
7. Karna and Duryodhana could not defeat panchalas for the sake of Drona. Arjuna and Bhima defeated panchalas.
8. Karna lost to Bhima on 17th day of battle.
9. All great warriors whether Karna or Arjuna can not be successful everytime when they fight with other great warriors.
10. There are few interpolations in Mahabharata. The story of Karna’s Kavach kundal and Arjuna defeating Indra seems to be myths.
11. Though Karna’s charector had some grey shades, I agree that he had also many positive qualities.
12. Pandavas had also done some mistakes like gambling with Duryodhana. They had to pay for this.
Dear Sheokhanda, I feel that Karna was a great charector of Mahabharata, but his hatred for pandavas had blinded him. He never tried to show the right path to his friend Duryodhana.
It is right that for Abhimanyu’s killing, Drona was more guilty. He was the mstermind behind Abhimanyu’s murder. In view Drona only pretended to be a good man. In reality he was an evilhearted and over ambititious person. What he did with Eklawya was shameful. Arjuna only complained to him that how someone has become more skilled in archery.
Drona used kauravas and pandavas to take his revenge from panchalas. He was the main reason behind the animosity between kurus and panchalas. Drona was an elderly person but he did not stop Duryodhana when he was trying to molest Draupadi, who was the daughter of his childhood friend and wife of his student. Drona relation with pandavas turned 180 degree when pandavas married the daughter of Drupada. Perhapes he did not like pandavas closeness with panchalas. He did not care even for the son of his pupil to take his revenge.
Invinciblity of Drona is certainly a myth. Many warriors such as Arjuna, Karna and Abhimanyu had surpassed him in archery. It is clearly written in Mahabharata that Arjuna did not want slay his guru. Drona himself accepted 12th day of battle that he was unable to capture Yudhishthira when Arjuna was with him. So he made plan to keep Arjuna away from Yudhishthira. Drona along with other kaurava warriors was unable save Bhishma from poor Shikhandin. Bhima and Arjuna successfuly checked their advanc’ on 10th day. Once Bhima pierced Drona’s body with 15 arrows and Drona fainted and had to be taken away from battle field. Drishtidyumna also made him swoon at one occasion in Bhishma parva.
Drona was helpless against Abhimanyu on 13th day. Satyaki and Bhima defeated him on 14th day of battle. That day he was unable to capture Yudhishthira in the absence of Arjuna, Bhima and Satyaki. Yudhishthira frustrated Drona’s attempt by cutting down Drona’s celestial weapons with his celestial weapons. Drona was unable to stop Ghatotkacha that night and Karna had to rescue kauravas from Ghatotkacha. Only Karna could slay Ghatotkacha.
According to Mahabharata, Drona did not left fighting even after Yudhishthira lied about Ashvatthaman’s death. His arrows exhausted after a long battle. Dristidyumna nutralized Drona’s celestial weapons his own celestial weapon and came close to Drona with a sword. Dristidyumna was a great swordsman and mastet of close fights. He beheaded Drona when Drona had no weapon left. I do not think that Drona would have been practicing yoga at that time that too in a battlefield. Drona was never known for his austerities. He was slaying ordinary warriors using celestial weapons so far. The story of Drona practicing yoga was perhapes created in later days to glorify him.
Let me get this right – in your point 4 – you say Karna had resolved that if Druapadi had asked for his help, he would have given it !!!!!! Isn’t this like Gen Dyer saying if the children in Jaliyanwala baga had asked for help he would have provided it !!!
Seriously !
You want us to believe that the man who sat there smirking as Drupadi was being hounded in court would go to a man who had openly declared himself as the enemy of her family and ask for his help ????
Grow up – accept the fact that Karna did WRONG by encouraging Duryodhan and Dudhashan in doing something that is reprehensible in any civil society.
Just as Yudhithir was wrong to get carried away by his addiction to gambling, Karna was wrong to get carried away by his pathological hatred towards the Pandavas and their wife.
Wrong is wrong. Rape is wrong. There is no justification for it. Even a slave has human rights and should never be raped. Here was a woman of good family. Even if her current situation was pitiful and she was totally helpless, to suggest public humiliation, molestation, incitement to rape and much worse – is WRONG. There is no justification for it in a civilised society. Only barbarians use rape as a weapon of war and as a way of further humiliating a defeated enemy. By suggesting it, all those who sanctioned it and attempted it showed their ugly barbaric side.
dude plese see mahabharat 10 times then only you can understand matter.Sorry to say you you have only 2 % of knowledge. don’t behave like duryodhan.
Tv serial is not all about Mahabharat. that is not even 1% of real story…
karna defeated bheema thrice while bheema only defeated him once .one the 17 day of the battle he alone defeated satyaki ,dhristyadyumna and other panchalas
” seems to be only a myth”??? Jesus Christ!!!! How the hell do u think Karna lost 2 Chitrasena, Karna waz drunk & waz not in a condition 2 combat or duell!! When the hell did Bheema defeat Karna??? Everybody believes that Karna spared Bheema’s life when he got a chance 2 slay Bheema!!! Just bcoz an ambiguous translation suggests Bheema fought bravely with Karna doesn’t mean Karna lost 2 him!!!! Infact, everybody believes that Karna alone defeated Bheema, Saatyakii, & co. etc. [& perhaps even Arjuna too] collectively even without his Kavacha & Kundalas & Vasava-Shakty!!!!!!! If a person gives van absolute statement that his best student is the best archer & greatest bow-wielder in the World, & if u r equal or better than that student born with a silver-spoon, would u need an invitation 2 challenge such an outrageous statement, O sire??????????????? U said “failed to defeat him everytime in wars” ——– u maynot know, but a diabolical % of the population of Asia believes that Karna {though using each weapon only once, devoid of his Kavacha & Kundalas, devoid of Vasava–Shakty, without invoking Brahmaastra} made Arjuna weaponless & even pushed Arjuna’s [perhaps Lord Shree Krishnaa’s gifted personal] chariot {which had Lord Shree Krishnna himself as the charioteer, Lord Hanumaan atop holding the flag, Arjuna az the warrior & waz driven divinely with the speed of mind & willpower of perhaps none other than Lord Shree Krishnna himself & had other legendary Angelic|Demi–God figures protecting the wheels} several steps behind & remember that Arjuna had no answer to Karna’s Naagastra —- Lord Shree Krishnna took special cognizance of the issue 2 save Arjuna’s life & when rendered weaponless, Arjuna waz not attacked by Karna owing to courtesy & the rules set by Mahaamahim Bheeshma & thereafter, sunset crept in & Karna abandoned the day’s proceedings following those same set of rules!!!!!!! & BTW, Karna had 2 do that stuff to Abhimanyuu bcoz of his EMPEROR Duryodhana’s & his Generalissimo Aachaarya Drona’s command ——— he’d no option, similar to the condition of Indian Armed Forces or Indian Intelligensia etc. who wish to teach the perpetrators a lesson but have 2 follow you-know-whose commands STRICTLY, without any fail, un4tunately!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I do accept some people’s views that since Arjuna waz 11–12 years younger 2 Karna, Karna should not have had been so hateful of a warrior who waz not even his age & waz just 3–4 years older to his first son/off-spring!!!!!!!!
Dear Sheokhanda, to know more about Karna and other charectors of Mahabharata you can go through the Mahabharata of Gita press or KM Ganguly’s English translation of Mahabharata. Mahabharata scripture is different from what we see in BR Chopra’s TV soap Mahabharat, where we see that Karna did not Kill Arjuna on 16th day of battle due to sunset.
I donot know if it offends you. But I would rather read books from other authors than from Mr Ganguly. I have issues there. He “might” be the first one to translate the Mahabharat but that doesnot mean that he is “authentic”. It is a possibility that he might have missed many points while writing it or that he might have interpreted the book as per his requirements. The more writers you would read the more interpretations you will find.
Just as many people interpret Quran or Holy Bible, likewise many people interpret Mahabharat.
As far as Mr BR Chopra’s TV show is concerned, same statement would imply to it too. It is his interpretation of Mahabharata.
Writers and entertainers have been writing about Mahabharata and interpreting it, I feel that a gross injustice has been done to Karna , as karna has been demonized.(and many other priests, writers and thinkers think alike).
If you feel that it is not the case then it is your view point. If you feel Draupadi is an Ideal woman, then again it is your view point (a view point which I consider deeply fallacious and misguiding to the womenfolk who read it). Mahabharat has grey shades and no black and white characters, kindly keep that into account.
Yes, one thing I will accept that Karna drew power from sun god, he was an invincible warrior in the presence of Sun. Therefore he preferred fighting under the sun.
a worrier whom realy live his life hard cor from his childhood which nobody wants to live if hi born again god pl z blase him all he love & care miss form his mother and father and in his next birth pl z karna can lives better life then Arjuna cozy in all Mahabharata happens only one man & worrier is stand out who is really a iconic person for me and riders like me i am the biggest fan of him plz god can u give karna which hi miss in Mahabharata his place in his 5 brothers becoz hi is elder then others can you give him that remember god hi is the better person then Matt kunti we love to see that plz give send him back for us coz fight against antigods his better person & a worrier
is/r Kisari Mohan Ganguly or Pratap Chandra Roy or C Rajagopalachari etc. a 19th century avataar(s) or human birth form(s) or parts of Lord Ganesha or is/r he/they Maharshii Veda Vyaasa reborn az human so that he/they SUCCESSFULLY uneditingly unabridgedly unconcoctedly undoctoredly unmisrepresentatedly translated 100% word by word, phrase by phrase, clause by clause, sentence4 by sentence, parah by parah, into English an epic that waz composed during the Iron Age in India or the early Vedic/Aryan Civilization period rougly 3 & a half millenium years back?????????????????
O Sire, Mr. Anand Shekhar, according to the rules of democracy, what more people believe would b taken 2 b true & wht fewer people believe would b taken 2 b non-canonical misleadind misinterpretation!!! More people than not believe Karna 2 b superior 2 Arjuna in combat —— bcoz of the simple logic da8 if Arjuna waz superior then y the hell would Lord of the Demi–Gods & Arjuna’s actual dad, Lord Indra need 2 cheat Karna & take away those KAVACHA & 2 KUNDALAs, okayy still with KAVACHA az Karna waz immortal az long az the KAVACHA waz there but y the hell did those 2 KUNDALAs needed 2 b taken away too MAN??????? So, even if B.R. Chopra “added” that 16th day sparing of Arjuna’s life by Karna bcoz of sunset, it at least, doesn’t defy logic ——- but the people who state that Arjuna defeated Karna thrice/twice even b4 Kurukshetra war their illogical statements defy logic —– thatz quite evident to any wise person, Am I right or am I ri8????????????????
sheokhanda, thanks for the post.
After reading about Karna, even I was thinking why would such a great man have such a fate until I read the other part of the story (which is very convincing and fits well too with the killing of karna), which I believe even you must have read and if not then it is a post by Tarkshya on http://seema-suchislife.blogspot.in /2010/05/complete-man-karna.html
P.S. Thanks to you again for directing to that blog for the female version
certain points are missed here:
1. No where in Mahabharata , Karna described as beautiful ( no where means no where)
2. This guy boast a lot , from early childhood , like the example of piercing 2 eyes with single arrow
3. Bhishma, The greatest warrior in Mahabharata, called Karna as ArdhaRathi i.e. He is not equivalent of sons of Dhritrashtra.
4.On Many occassions, Arjun defeated this boasting personality, even with his invincible Kavach and Kundala, notables are:
Virat Yuddha : whole army of Duryodhana, along with Karna, Bhishma and Dronacharya was defeated by Arjun.
During Exile, when Duryodhana was captured by king of yaksha, whole army of Duryodhana along with Karna was unable to save him. Arjun single handed defeated Chitrasen and bring Duryodhana back.
5. In war of Mahabharata, Karna was defeated by Arjun atleast 5-6 times in Drone parva.
Karna was good but he was not at all dharmik, He gives Brahmins a lot but was not humble or kind towards his subjects. The films are portraying wrong image of Karna here.
you people always get your own view. pls read veda vyas original mahabharat. Don’t be a god. first thing twice & then speak dude. Only karan called DAAN-VEER Karan . IN MAhabharat nobody is daanveer. may be he is daani (donateror) charity Or veer (brave). But both qualities have single person namely karan.
ADI PARVA – VYASA MAHABHARATA:
“Thus addressed, the girl (a little while after), seized with curiosity, summoned, during the period of her maiden-hood, the god Surya. And the lord of light thereupon made her conceive and begot on her a son who became the first of all wielders of weapons. From fear of relatives she brought forth in secrecy that child who had come out with ear-rings and coat
of mail. And he was gifted with the beauty of a celestial infant, and in splendour was like unto the maker of day himself. And every part of his body was symmetrical and well-adorned. And Kunti cast the handsome child into the water. But the child thus thrown into the water was taken up by the excellent husband of Radha and given by him to his wife to be adopted by her as their son. And the couple gave him the name of Vasusena, by which appellation the child soon became known all over the land. And, as he grew up, he became very strong and excelled in all weapons. The first of all successful persons, he soon mastered the sciences. And when the intelligent one having truth for his strength recited the Vedas, there was nothing he would not then give to the Brahmanas. At that time Indra, the originator of all things, moved by the desire of benefiting his own son Arjuna, assumed the guise of a Brahmana, came to him, and begged of the hero his ear-rings and natural armour. And the hero taking off his ear-rings and armour gave them unto the Brahmana. And Sakra (accepting the gift) presented to the giver a dart, surprised (at his open handedness), and addressed him in these words, ‘O invincible one, amongst the celestials, Asuras, men, Gandharvas, Nagas, and Rakshasas, he at whom thou hurlest (this weapon), that one shall certainly be slain.’ And the son of Surya was at first known in the world by the name of Vasusena. But, for his deeds, he subsequently came to be called Karna. And because that hero of great fame had taken off his natural armour, therefore was he–the first son of Pritha–called Kama. And, O best of kings, the hero began to grow up in the Suta caste. And, O king, know thou that Kama–the first of all exalted men–the foremost of all wielders of weapons–the slayer of foes–and the best portion of the maker of day.”
KARNA PARVA – VYASA Mahabharata:
“Radha’s son of incomparable splendour looked resplendent in beauty and radiance like a second Sun.”
“The heroic son of Adhiratha was endued with the prowess of the lion or the elephant! His neck was as thick as that of a bull, and his eyes, gait, and voice were like the bull’s! Of limbs as hard as the thunderbolt, that young man, like a bull never flying away from a bull, never desisted from battle even if his foe happened to be the great Indra himself! At the sound of his bow-string and palms and at the whizz of his arrowy showers men and steeds and cars and elephants fled away from battle.”
“He had subjugated many invincible and mighty foes–the Gandharas, the Madrakas, the Matsyas, the Trigartas, the Tanganas, the Khasas, the Pancalas, the Videhas, the Kulindas, the Kasi-kosalas, the Suhmas, the Angas, the Nishadhas, the Pundras, the Kichakas, the Vatsas, the Kalingas, the Taralas, the Asmakas, and the Rishikas. Subjugating all these brave races, by means of his keen and whetted arrows equipped with kanka feathers, that foremost of car-warriors, Radha’s son, had caused all of them to pay tribute to us for the aggrandisement of Duryodhana.”
“Indra is the foremost of gods, Karna was the foremost of men. In the three worlds no third person has been heard of by us to be like them. Unvanquished by even the most heroic and the mightiest of monarchs, he had, subjugated the whole earth. The ruler of Magadha, having by conciliation and honours obtained Karna for a friend, had challenged all the Kshatriyas of the world.”
U WANT MORE PROOF, I’LL GIVE IT U. WAT A LAME ARGUMENTS HAVE U FORWARDED “No where in Mahabharata , Karna described as beautiful ( no where means no where)”????, OBVIOUSLY SHOWS UR IGNORANCE. FIRST GO & READ THE EPIC B4 U MAKE MORE FOOLISH COMMENTS.
Handsome is as handsome does.
WHO cares if Karna was physically handsome or not ? His actions prove he was an underhanded man who spoke of dharma and yet carried out adharma everytime. Reason Bhishma, Drona and Krupacharya mocked him is because Karna was good at boasting but never fulfilled his boasts. He kept saying he could defeat xyz in a single battle, but always returned with tail between his legs – eg soon after being crowned the king of Anga, he tried to defeat Drupada and lost. He promised to bring Draupadi as Duryodhan’s wife and lost to Arjun. He lost to the gandharvas in the forest and Duryodhan was captured as Karna ran away ! He promised to defeat Arjun at Virat and lost his clothes.
He only lost his precious skin before the final battle. But what about the previous occasions ?
Karna was hot headed and easy to anger. His hate for Drupadi was unjustified. Just because she said no to marrying him, it does not justify molestation or attempted rape. He was raised as a suta, so what else should Draupadi call him ? If your surname is Shah or Smith, what should people call you but Shah or Smith !
Karna was part of every devious plot Duryodhan and his uncle dreamed up. He might have said, “we should fight rather than play tricks.” but when the chips were down, he was at the forefront of every devious trick the Kauravas played.
Karna’s generous deeds were “tamsi”. He was doing it to get punya and thereby defeat Arjun. He only started the charity drive to defeat Arjun and that too during their years of exile. He wasn’t generous by nature – it was his calculated approach to win the war. If he was intelligent, he would have tried to acquire new skills and weapons to win the war, not arshivads and punya.
Arjun was better than Karna because he kept learning more and kept improving his skills. Arjun was better because his battle was to regain that which was his by right.
Karna gatecrashed the graduation ceremony of the princes and he gatecrashed their family feud without any real reason to do so. Karna’s ego was bigger than his skill set and that’s why he lost.
1. really??!! Have u read Mahabharata. okk 1st, it was said when karna used to go to Ganga take his bath Hastinapur girls used to peep and go gaga over him. Bhishma at the end said karna “he is as generous as Yudhisthir ……. As handsome as Nakula” .. point to be noted Nakula is told as most handsome man in the epic. One version of Mahabharata says KARNA was named Karna becoz of His sun like aura.
3. Bhishma did it to insult him like others. But at the end when Bhishma was lying in “Sara-shajya” n karne went to meet him Bhisma accepted “you are one of the greatest archer of world” .. and for your kind info Vyasa called him Ati-maharathi .. what is a rank of valor that comes only next to Maha-Maharathi which is only reserved for Lord Shiva. Sri Krishna said to Arjuna “in war karna is no less than the destroyer (Mahadev)”
4. you may forgot Arjuna didn’t defeated karna but his illusive arrow created some allusion for that everybody fainted. And moreover Karna was there to fight a Brihannala a real MAN like Karna would have never thought Arjuna has turned into a 😉 .. you know what
About the story of chitrasena there is two story. Chitrasena was guru of Arjuna. Karna wasn’t arrested but Vikarna driven him out of the barriers of yakshas as they surrounded Karna and Karna was severely injured. he didn’t know that duryadhana was inside. as per the 2nd story Chitrasena arrested all of them but as he knew Karna was Arjun’s big bro he let everyone go. Arjun has no roll here. And even if he had he was favored by his guru.
5. There was no such story. I don’t know which version you have read, in fact there is story Karna almost killed Arjuna twice but once timing went wrong and Karna felt the arrow won’t reach ARjuna before sun set so Karna left Arjun, 2nd time, it was Krishna who lowed the chariot so Arjuna was saved.
AND if you don’t know Sri Krishna himself said,” Karna was a greater warrior than Arjuna. Krishna said an arrogant Arjuna that everytime Karna shoved your chariot with his one arrow he was not only shoving you but Me the God and Hanumaan ji. Arjuna then understood what a warrior KARNA was but unfortunately Mr. you didn’t
Finally ending this post with Sri Krishna’s quote. Krishna about karna, “Karna is one great soul that rarely appears in human race.” Don’t you think if Arjuna was capable of killing karna in fair means KRISHA would never go for an unfair means ever.
PS: As per Vyasa’s Skanda Puran Karna is human birth of Shani Dev so before you speak a single word to demean karna think twice
LOL – seriously !
When all other arguments fail, you want to use “he is the avatar of Shani” as an argument to shut others up ! Seriously ! LOL
Krushna was a friend, adviser, relative, well wisher of ALL good and great people in that battle. He saw people as they are and knew their good and bad points. For this reason, Duryodhan went to him to ask for an army and knew Krushna would not deny him. For this reason Karna got on the chariot to have a private conversation with Krushna in full view of Kuru court without fear of upsetting Duryodhan.
Krushna knew Arjun’s capability and Karna’s capability and that’s why he said Karna wont be able to kill you. BUT, should the impossible become possible, I will take kill Karna for sake of establishing Dharma Rajya.
Anyway – you can keep worshiping Karna as your hero or for being Surya-putra or Shani-avatar or whatever. Its your choice. Just don’t try to justify his illogical, pathological dislike for the Pandavas and Draupadi. He loved Duryodhan so much, he hated everyone Duryodhan hated. No further explanation is needed. You can analyse if you want, but trying to justify this hatred is pointless.
@B. Shah it matters not whether Karn waz indeed an avataar of Lord Shanii —- he waz at least son of Lord Shanii’s father, Lord SuryaNaaraayan!!!! thus, he waz at least, bro of both Lord Shanii & Lord Yama[Lord Dharma] !!!! returning back to the issue, I suggest u, o legendary Sire of immeasurable energy, to read my posts on this thread in this forum where I’ve countered all ur rants & barbs against Karna with justified logic!!!! If possible, defeat those logic of mine with counter logic & befitting counter-arguements; not of course excerpts from ambiguous challengable questionable misleading SO-CALLED-ORIGINAL TRANSLATION(s)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! u must know that epic authors like JRR Tolkien & co. do not explain & pen–down anythinh & everything ——– they leave a few things unexplained deliberately & leave it to the i magination of the reader-turned-logical-wise-intelligent-analyst-cum-debater-cum-researcher kind of people like Mr. Sheokhanda & many others, however a few people misinterpret &/or even publish their own versions without understanding the well-being of the society factor/aspect of such invaluable epic creations & a few people after reading those dangerous versions, consider those 2 be TRUE AUTHENTIC CANONICAL & treat a victim of RACISM az a culprit & a perpetrator of Human Rights & a RACIST|CASTEIST criminal offender az a victim!!!!!!!
Mr. Vikas I guess your knowledge on Mahabharata is limited only with KMG version. your very 1st point is a BIG FAT LIE
here are the numbers of slokas .. please consider Vyasa Mahabharata n match them n check the translation .. I am giving the numbers along with translation
|Ka 94|33, | Va 307|19, | Adi 136|4,5, | Ka 72|27| Ka34|157, | Sha 1/42
Vasusena’s physic radiance like bright gold or burning gold. His body reflected the brightness of fire and sun. He had lotus like beautiful big eyes. Wide forehead and gorgeous hair made him look extremely beautiful. Sun like resplendence, Moon like gentleness and Fire like luster along with tall magnificent physic, Lion like velour, large chest, broad shouldered, proud, awfully valiant Vasusena is really heroic handsome. His body was equal to Astaratni means equal to seven hands. Vasusena’s feet resembled with kunti’s.
Hi, u have explain all qualities of karna in a excellent way that is true also. I have read RASMIRATHI by ramdhari singh dinkar. I am great fan of karna but one question arrises as injustice by karna when he involved himself in killing ABHIMANYU. If u have an explation abut his this action then plz send me. Rest u did a good work.
because he want to fight with arjun and thats why he kill the abhimanyu . karna is strongly know if he kill son of arjun they will definately fight with him .
No that wasn’t the reason. Chakravyujhya is a war method only where one has to fight against many. either you break the circle/Vyujya or you get killed. Karna was playing his roll as a soldier only. Drona planned this and Abhimanyu was killed by Dushashana’s son after he killed Duryadhana’s son Laxma. do not forget karna’s son was already killed by Arjuna and nakula by unfair tricks
suppose u r Karna & u’ve already swore an oath/allegiance 2 Duryodhana forever for life, can u disobey him or Shakunii??? plz answer & u would get ur own question’s answer!!!!!!!
hi guys i want to ask u one que why god send the karna in wrong side for mahabharat battle ? why they not select arjun for wrong side ?
please enlighten me with the story where pandavas kill karna’s sons, and did it happen before chakrabyuh incident and arjun too was included in the killing ? please reply, i respect karna very much and want to know this story too.
yes it happened before chakrabujhya. Karna’s son almost defeated Nakula in fair war when Arjuna killed him from behind. Seems Arjuna can’t kill anyone neither Karna nor his son in fair means.
karna start the game of ego… Not arjun. Arjun always tried to be better never tried to show him best like karna….
ARJUNA FELT INSULTED BCOZ KARNA ENTERED INTO THE VIEW DURING THE EXHIBITION OF TALENT.
ADI PARVA – Arjuna, after this, deeming himself disgraced, said unto Karna stationed amidst the brothers like unto a cliff, ‘That path which the unwelcome intruder and the uninvited talker cometh to, shall be thine, O Karna, for thou shall be slain by me.’ KARNA FIRST STARTED THE GAME OF EGO, REALLY ??? “Karna replied, ‘This arena is meant for all, not for thee alone, O Phalguna! They are kings who are superior in energy; and verily the Kshatriya regardeth might and might alone. What need of altercation which is the exercise of the weak? O Bharata, speak then in arrows until with arrows I strike off thy head today before the preceptor himself!’ ”
NOW MORE ROUND OF INSULTS BY BHEEM:
“Seeing the charioteer, the Pandava Bhimasena took Karna for a charioteer’s son, and said by way of ridicule, ‘O son of a charioteer, thou dost not deserve death in fight at the hands of Partha. As befits thy race take thou anon the whip. And, O worst of mortals, surely thou art not worthy to sway the kingdom of Anga, even as a dog doth not deserve the butter placed before the sacrificial fire.’ Karna, thus addressed, with slightly quivering lips fetched a deep sigh, looked at the God of the day in the skies.” DESPITE ALL THESE INSULTS, KARNA STILL DIDN’T INSULTED ANY ONE. LOOK AT THE SHEER VENOM OF BHEEM’S INSULTS. HE COMPARED KARNA, TO A STRAY DOG & PANDAVAS WERE STILL THE GOOD BOYS !!! COME ON….
Karna was wrong to grate crash a graduation ceremony of the Kuru princes. He was wrong – full stop. It was not a public display of talent that was open to all and sundry. It was designed to show the royal family what their son’s had learned in gurukul. Karna was wrong to try and muscle in and show off.
Trust me, Karna did not stint on insults either. He was just as foul mouthed as any in the heat of the battle and he was particularly insulting towards the Kuru elders. Karna’s advise to Durudhan during the dice game shows what a wicked mind he had and how low he could stoop.
Karna’s HUGE ego did not match up to his actual skill set and he was defeated repeatedly by all and sundry including Drupad, gandharvas and ofcourse Arjun on more than one occasion.
@Chitra absolutely!!!! According 2 da modern day UN & USA rules & regulations & legislations, Bheem would’ve been rigorously imprisoned 4 at least 25–30 years courtesy such barbs/rants/taunts LOL —– but hey; if at all this RACISM|CASTEISM & CASTIST|RACIST PROFILING by Bheem b authentic & canonical, what were Mahaamahiim Bheeshma or MahaaGuruu Aachaarya Drona or KulGuruu Kriipaa or Samraatt Dhritaraashtra or Mahaaraany Gaandhaary or DHARMAPUTRA Yudhishtthiira or Raajmaataa Kuntii [Karna’s biological mom too] or Lord Shree Krishnna doing at that point of tym [when, if at all true, Bheem waz “alledgedly” spilling out venom & doing such inhuman Human–Rights violating deeds/acts]—– NJOYING THE CRIME of their favourite COMEDIAN & ‘the then Kapil Sharma’ or what?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @B.Shah sire, plz enlighten me on this pleaze; what waz my favourite character Lord Shree Krishnna doing 2 prevent or protest against or take befitting natural–justice oriented action against that horrendous crime & what did Lord Shree Krishnna do when Draupadii committed an even worse crime of the same category —– RACISM & RACIST PROFILING & HUMAN–RIGHTS VIOLATION & DEPRIVED CLASSSES’ RIGHTS VIOLATIONS & DEPRIVATIONS & DISCRIMINATIONS ????????????????????????????????
it was Arjuna n Bhima who always insulted Karna for his birth right .. Karna wanted to prove he is a great archer no matter from which caste he belongs. He symbolizes the eternal struggle of “proletariat” .. who keep on struggling n breathe his last in hand of unfair attack. Karna’s struugle never ends .. its still going on that’s y even after Bhibhutibhushan bandopadhyay to Shivaji Sawant to Tagore’s writing on him .. scholar’s declaration that Karna is the Best mytho character ever .. people still blames him. Not a matter religious blinds often speak non sense but swam Swami Vivekananda gave him huge honor by selecting Karnal for his tapasya rejecting many others
If you are interested in Karna, you may like to read a play written by me in which the story of Mahabharata takes another turn when Arjuna refuses the advice of Krishna and tells Yudhisthira to accept the decision of Bhishma and Bhishma who knows the real story of birth of Karna chooses him as the next King of Hastinapur. Dussala, daughter of Gandhari, marries Karna and so the son of Kunti and daughter of Gandhari rule Hastinapur after Dhrutrashtra. To get a soft copy of the play, send your request to sharad_23shah@hotmail.com.
any amount of rewriting the story does not change the facts 🙂
Facts cannot be re-written but stories can. Shyam Benegal rewrote Mahabharata and made a movie KALAYUGA.
which facts, o @B. Shah sire of immeasurable energy??? r u the 21st century avataar/ansha/ruup of Lord Shree Ganesha or r u MahaaMahaaRishii Veda Vyaasa reborn that u r talking about “facts”??? I’ve ever & anon seen u, o bull of thy Bharata race, take out excerpts of that illogical work by K.M. Ganguli & call them “facts”!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
real hero of Mahabharata is karna
nopes yaarr, Mahaabhaarat haz great many a no. of heroes —- Karn iz among the very best of them & although I’m a Karn & Bheeshm fan, i still think Arjuna waz the greatest HERO az he waz the ONE who ended up fighting in compliance with/conforming to Lord Shree Krishnna’s path & role & purpose & ideology & thought process & teachings & preachings & prophecies etc.
One who fights for himself is Duryodhana
One who fi8z 4 his flatterer iz Ashwaththaama
One who fights for his brother’s whims n fancies is Vikarna
One who fights for his dad’s whims n fancies is Laksmana[Gandhaarii’s eldest grandson]
One who fights for his breadgiver is DronaAacharya
One who fights for his brother’s rights is Bheema
One who fights without question just bcoz of being a commander of Naaraayanii Sena’s legion [under the imperial control of Duryodhana by Shrii Krishnna’s chice] is Kritavarma
One who fights blindly on his father’s summoning is Ghatothkacha
One who fights in compliance with his father’s oath is Vriishasena
One who fights for his step-mom’s justice is Abhimanyuu
One who fights for truth & his subjects’ well-being is Yudhishtthiir
One who fights against his vile bro & for the pioneer of truth & ri8eousness is Yuyutsu
One who fights to fulfill his vow of security to his step-bro’s family is Bheeshma
One who fights to fulfill his word/swearing of allegiance/bondage to his friend is Karna
BUT
One who fights to fulfill the purpose & role of the birth n presence of Lord Vishnuu’s 8th & greatest ever Avataar is Arjuna
beautiful post I must say .. Karna is my all time hero .. not only I love him I idolize him. I too have some feminism notion but I too feel for Karna’s misfortune Kunti was highly responsible. her acts are absolutely unjustifiable. She floated her first born and society is not an excuse as sociaty then wasn’t rigid about illicit child. Vyasa was also born out of unmarried woman n neither society rejected him nor Satyavati hide the fact. Not only that Kunti tried to manipulate Karna telling his birth history to karna just before battle started for him. Disgusting politician she is.
Well there are two flaw in this post. the 5th quality what Draupadi asked in his husband was he should be learned. Sahadeva was a learned man and so was karna, along with his other qualities. And Karna said a woman with more than FOUR husbands [not one] is a “w***e” .. as per Hindu social rules then a woman could have physical relationship with four men, and turned a pros if exceeds. so, may be insulting Draupadi was Karna’s only fault in his life but Karna was logically not wrong. And karna regretted for this act. those who accuse Karna for it 1st think why draupadi’s five [spineless] husbands remain silent during his humiliation.
And please if anyone makes Karna responsible for Abhimanyu’s death I would say they didn’t read Mahabharata at all.
Cast the first stone at Kunti if you never made a rash mistake – especially in their youth.
Karna was born to a young girl who was adopted into a royal family. Her place in the social order was precarious at best. Any hint of scandal would have impacted her, adopted family and her biological family very badly. Women of her social order would die rather than suffer dishonour.
Vyas was born to a working woman of lowest social order where relations out of wedlock were not unknown. Even than, she chose to keep her misdemeanor and illegitimate son a secret till the death of her legitimate sons. Even Stayavati did not keep her son. She gave him away to the father of the child.
If you are so keen to blame Kunti, why not the Sun? Kunti was unable to take care of her son for a number of reasons. What stopped the Sun from claiming him to be his son and taking up his upbringing?
Draupadi only married the Pandavas after due advise from her father, Vyas and various other elders. Hers was an exceptional marriage and Karna had no business to cast aspirations on her in open court. It was an internal family matter for the Kurus and he was an outsider. His intelligence is not being debated here, his caustic tongue is.
Draupadi might ‘ve been physically assaulted & stripped & disrobed by force —- da8z a horrendous crime, I admit!!!!!!! But what Draupadi committed waz beyond tolerance ——- she committed a crime/offence known as RACISM|CASTISM & that iz hundreds of millions of tyms worse than force disrobing & compelled stripping etc.
Karna waz not just an outsider, o sire @Bhagwat Shah, he waz, az OFFICIALLY a king of a different realm, an invitee of honour at that Kuruu court where Draupadii of course waz the chiefest guest 4 whose satkaar Duyodhana had taken so much pain 2 make everything picture perfect & exquisite !!! 2 guests, o Mr. B. Shah sire of legendary fame/glory, can quarrel & even duel & combat , however, a host cannot quarrel or duel with a guest infron of other guests, have u forgotten all kinds of regulations or what??? & if Draupadi had a special reason 2 marry five men, y dd not she give her logical response to Karn’s rebuke with that reason?????????????? if u ‘ve genuine reasons, y the hell would u not state it??? yup she had genuine logic, but y did she not answer back with logic ——- if u do not answer back with logic & counter arguments, it would appear/seem that u have lost the war of words & this action of Draupadii iz a very poor example setting coz one ought 2 answer back with logic whenever u r rebuked or lashed at or slammed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously? Are you saying Kauravas invited Pandavas to entertain them? Are you seriously trying to hoodwink all of us into believing the Kauravas had good motives when they created the Dhrut-sabha?
If you are ignorant enough not to know that Polygamy and Polyandry are accepted forms of marriage in various cultures of India, you are terribly mis-informed. EVERYONE in that Kuru court knew that Yvasa himself had sanctioned this polyandry marriage, including Karna. His nature and nurture was low enough for him to refer to a legally married woman as a whore in open court.
Like Karna, you are using abusive language to try and shout people down on this blog. If this is your chosen method of debate, I doubt its worth replying to your posts.
i’m not hoodwinking into making people believe that Kauravas had good motives or tried 2 entertain the Paandavas & Draupadii ——- I’ve only ever tried 2 say that the Empire of Hastinaapura had invited Indraprastha’s royal dignitaries but still insulted those very chief guests!!!!!!!!!!!! but, ur previous posts suggest that u advocated RACIAL|CASTEIST PROFILING & ABUSE & TORMENT of a person (even a raajya-surakshaa–officer or a warrior) upon his SURNAME ——- u’ve already depicted to the people here in this thread what kind of sick mentality & thought-process & ideology u possess!!!! it iz u who do not read logical blogs properly & still attack viciously the concerned reasoning bloggers, giving them names & even call them hoodwinkers or tricksters, although they justify everything wid logic & do not show a speck of tricking still u call such reasoning people tricksters & then say that those people r corrupting the debate & thus henceforth u’ll not like 2 engage in further debate wid those persons???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It iz u, o sire, & not myself, who’ve corrupted the debate by calling me a trickster; all that I’ve ever done iz b unbiased & impartial unlike u & follow proper reasoning & logic & not follow ambiguous challengable so-called ORIGINAL personal translations
I ‘ve alwayz admitted that Karn defied logic & reasoning in calling Draupadii a whore & even committed a crime!!! the crime by Dushshaasana waz also heinous & Duryodhana & Karna, though past victims of that wicked Draupadii, had no justification 2 reply to precedent offences by Draupadii with another offence against her ——- a preceeding crime(s) cannot justify a succeeding crime; it should much rather b a just befitting legal process & punishment that has unanimous consent & that punishment in itself cannot b yet another offence or crime —— so Duryodhana & Karna were wrong & I’ve alwayz been law-abiding & unbiased !!!!!!!!
& Draupadii waz foolish enough not to fight/argue with logic & proper reasoning like I do!!!! Karn showed a shallow & narrow-minded thought process & ideology (4 perhaps the only ever tym though) by calling Draupadii a “whore” bcoz of her polyandry deed & Draupadii had ample logic & reasoning & arguements & proofs etc. on her side & skewed against Karn’s challengable remark/taunt; however, she & many other elders in the Kuruu court & even the wise Sahadeva & truthful Yidhishtthiira & brave Arjuna etc. set a horrendous example by not arguing to Karna’s ridiculous ludicrous preposterous logic with proper reasoning though reasoning waz on their & Draupadii’s side & against Karn’s logic!!!! tiz n xceedingly poor xample 4 da legal set-up & justice system & law n order & debating platforms/stages etc. If I like a hero, it doesn’t mean that I’ll defend even his offence ——- but surely I’ll point out his terrible sufferrings throughout his life & of course his incredible credentials with weapons etc. & his great selfless legendary granting/’daan’ acts/deeds of yore!!!!!
@B.Shah where r u finding abusive languages??? where am I shouting down???? officially, Draupadii waz a chief guest —- thats it, however, Shakunii, Duryodhana etc. were planning something vile, even that’s true; but officially it waz an invitation 4 entertainment one must admit & thatz exactly wht I stated!!!! where in any of my posts have I ever challenged or voiced against polyandry or polygamy of the then society???? plz show me such loopholes on polygamy & polyandry concepts of mine, if any, in any of my posts, or else apologize for calling others “ignorant” & “mis-informed” & stop visiting online forums in the future!! u visit online forums with a clearly polarized mindset & u r trying 2 intensify the polarization even more by illogically criticizing logical people by calling them names!! Since Draupadii waz the chiefest guest, all the more reason y she should not have been insulted & remember that she waz insulted by hosts like the chief host Duryodhana & his closest bro, Dushshaasana ——- that iz uncalled 4!!!! However, Karn az another guest had ri8z 2 at least argue with DRaupadii & since Karn’s arguement waz BASELESS (yup, I admit —— I’m not biased like u, Mr. B.Shah), & Draupadii had in her possession logic & evidences, she should’ve continued the arguement using those logic & evidences ——- she set a bad example by not arguing befittingly, even though she waz favourable az far az logic & arguements & evidences were concerned & this bis what I stated in my previous post too & still u said:”Like Karna, you are using abusive language to try and shout people down on this blog. If this is your chosen method of debate, I doubt its worth replying to your posts.” ———————- how dare did u say that???????? Did u not read my post carefully or do u know only how 2 insult wise able people like Draupadii’s inspiration taught u to???!!!!!!! U doubt it iz unworthy replying 2 my posts even though I’m unbiased & using logic ——- it iz biased & anti–social bigot misanthrope people like u & Mr. Ling Raj who should not get any replies & must be boycotted at online forums!!!! Draupadii’s humiliation, though she waz a chief guest, waz outrageous ——- however, the 2 crimes committed by her prior 2 this were thousands of tymz & millions of tymz far worse, viz; ASSAULT ON PHYSICAL HANDICAPPNESS/DISABILITY & RACISM|CASTEISM & she ought 2 ‘ve got death punishment owing 2 each of those ——- but stripping & disrobing a chief guest iz not a just punishment, even I admit that that is itself another crime & crime can’t justify crime —— shouln’t b crime 4 crime, rather it should b apt punishment & justice 4 crime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shame on people like u who do not read other people’s post properly b4 attacking those posting people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
krishna said to arjuna that if karna had his “shakti” or his armour not not arjuna ,krishna ,indra ,shiva ,or vishnu could defeat him
This is biased article , Arjuna was a better worrier karna .all weapons to karna was gifted while Arjuna worked hard all his life to achieve his weapons. For your kind knowledge Arjuna defeated karna twice , karna was defeated by Arjuna son satyki and once by bheema but Arjuna was never defeated by anyone…
During virat yudh Arjuna alone defeated bheema, dronacharya, karna and others
Your lack of knowledge shows that not only you are a biased person with a narrow viewpoint, but also someone who is unable to think beyond few priests interpretation and writings.
The viewpoint which you reflect later becomes an oppressive ideology which breeds classism.
It is well know that it was Karna who fought throughout his life to gain knowledge.
You enjoy stating that Arjun won, if we remove Krishna’s guidance and Indra benevolence. Then Arjun has no standing anywhere, leave apart in front of Karna.
When you challenge Karna education and capability , you in turn challenge his teacher Parshuram (who was also the teacher of Bhisma, a far better warrior than Arjun).
You mean to say that Parshuram was an incompetent teacher, who did not teach his students well.
Are you also challenging Bhisma’s education, a man who built and protected Hastinapur/KuruVansha ?
May I also inform your biased mindset that Parshuram was teacher of Bhisma, Karna and Dronacharya (who is your beloved Arjun’s famous teacher).
Just to breakdown the things, Parshuram was a far greater teacher than Dronacharya !
sheokhanda you are mistaken. Arjun keeps learning all his life and gains new weapons from new teachers. Karna sits on his laurels and does not learn anything new after Parashurama’s ashram.
Karna is defeated by Arjun at a fight post Draupadi’s swayamvar and at Virat’s borders. Both times, Arjun fights on his own and does not have Krushna with him.
In the war of Mahabharata, 3 students of Parashuram are on Kaurav side and all three lose their lives to Pandava army.
so Krishna’ presence is good for nothing ?
Nice, you seem to have very low opinion of him.
Krishna comes to aide of Arjun innumerable times, but the Mahabharat which runs in your mind. He is absent and Arjun does everything on his own. Nice.
sheokhanda, you have misinterpreted my mail. Krushna’s presence acts as a catalyst, speeding up what was inevitable. Arjun is talented and there is no question about it. He wins all the battles he undertakes.
Karna on the other hand was all show, no substance. He could ‘perform’ and show his skills, but when it came to war, is consistently failed – at Panchal, Virat and in front of the Gandharvas. Only time he wins is when he goes on a Vijay-yatra on behalf of Duryodhan for a yagna with the Kuru army. Kauravas had marriage relations with most kingdoms (they did have 100 princes), so he had very little opposition anyway.
Karna only fought for 7 days in the final war before dying. Arjun and the others had been fighting for 17 solid days at that point.
Sorry, but Karna is not the hero you think he is.
Bhagwat, I did not misinterpreted your email. You were so inclined to show Arjun as a great warrior that you forgot that Krishna had a huge role in making him so. Many people have talent but it is their teacher who taps it and then turns it to real time greatness.
I have observed your posts continuously,the zest and enthusiasm with which you downgrade Karna and showcase Arjun is fascinating. 🙂
I would have easily believed that I am taking to Draupadi, If I had not know better. 🙂
Only a wife can be so protective of her “great” husband.
You mention that Krishna is a catalyst, absolutely, I agree 100%. His teachings enhanced Arjun presence in the war field. Let me break it down to you the capability of Karna, Arjun, Drona and Bhishma on a scale of 10 being the best.
Bhishma — 10
Drona — 9
Karna — 9
Arjun — 8
It is Krishna’s presence and teaching which turns Arjun into a 16 (i.e. twice his capability, beyond greatness and invincible). Hence he is able to kill all of the above 3 great warriors.
Additionally, You like to quote so much from anti-Karna Literature, could you please mention the source point or your teacher who educates you in this ever-‘wise’ quest ?
LOL !!!
From a ‘blogger’ to the ‘wife-of-Arjun’ !!
Sheokhanda, you are seriously taking this conversation beyond its remit.
For your information, my source is the Mahabharata of Veda Vyasa. Best English translation is freely available on Sacred texts website. http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/maha/
I have nothing for or against Karna or for or against Arjun. They are not related to me and I am not going to inherit anything from either of them. I have no axe to grind and have no interest in making a monument to either hero of Mahabharata. I am simply stating it as it is.
Fact of life is, the person who continues to learn, improves his game.
Person who sits back and thinks s/he is best, does not progress.
That’s life.
Arjun kept learning and kept improving his game. Bhishma, Drona and Karna did not gather more skills after they finished their education with Parashurama. Hence Arjun was able to out maneuver his teachers and mentors as well as his main competitor. Not just in Kurushetra but also outside Virat. At that point, there was no Krushna to guide or protect Arjun.
Facts are simple. If you want to look at them, fine. If you want to ignore them, its your choice.
Arjun won, Karna lost.
Arjun won more wars than Karna.
Karna had a lot of potential, but he failed to capitalise on it. He reserved Indra’s shakti for-one-fine-day. Why didn’t he use it on the 11th day when he entered the war? He procrastinated to the point where he was unable to do the very thing he wanted to do all his life. Why did Karna jump to free his wheel? Did he not have soldiers to do it for him? All maharathis had soldiers to protect their wheels, supply fresh horses, bring new arrows etc for them. Had Karna not been so eager to free his wheel himself, he could have carried on fighting from his chariot – or borrowed someone else’s.
Lot of ifs, buts, maybes.
6 Maharathis had ganged up on an unarmed Abhimanu to kill him. This included Karna. Krushna simply reminded Arjun that those who live by the sword, die by the sword. Karna was implicit in Abhimanu’s death and showed no mercy to a young man when he was unarmed. It was right that Karna should not expect his enemy to show him any mercy either. You can’t break the law and expect the law to protect you at the same time.
Fact remains, at no point did Karna exceed Arjun in talent shown on the battle field. He might have matched him, but never exceeded him. Try as he might, Karna was unable to equal Arjun’s impressive tally of victories.
Fact, Karna was killed by Arjun.
Guess what, in any other language, that means Arjun was the better warrior.
As to being called ‘Draupadi’ on this blog – should I be impressed or insulted?
ummm – I will just conclude that you have run out of any other rational arguments and have taken to name calling instead.
Kisari Mohan Ganguli really, you want to say his interpretations are divine truth and all have to accept. No doubt you cannot understand Mahabharat beyond a Brahmin’s interpretation or what he wants the world to know. I reject his interpretations.
More importantly, please provide me the link where he mentions the above lines.
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You state Arjun won here, Arjun won there and even after winning everywhere. He allows his brother to put his wife at stake, not to mention get her stripped (surely a sign of great man , a true hero). If she would have married Karna instead, she need not marry five men, Karna would have never put her on stake, Duryodhan would have deeply respected her owing to his friendship with Karna, but she chose otherwise. Her choice, after all a gambling prince is far better than an honorable commoner who is so called “low breed”.
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Vyasa wrote Mahabharat in a balanced form, he never gave decisive answers. Vaysa himself was a product of a Brahmin father and “lower caste” mother. He would never write anything stating Karna was inferior, and then I have not even begin talking about Eklavya here.
It seems that your understanding of Mahabharat is classiest in nature, where a prince is better off than everyone. A prince who has no understanding of Dharma, certainly not at the level of Bhishma. Only after arrival of Krishna does he gets some guidance.
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You state 6 Maharathis had ganged up on an unarmed Abhimanyu, you will put that on Karna. NICE. It is Drona who started fight at night and who devised the Chakravyu, he is not be blamed. Plus I don’ think that you have read any of the above comments. This issue is already discussed there.
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In the end you say that I am calling you names, I am amazed that if anyone does says you a Draupadi or Arjun etc you will find it offending. At one point you say Arjun is great and other end you do not find Draupadi respectful. Very Surprising.
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Let me be more specific, for many (like you) Karna is an incompetent, boastful ,evil doing, War-Mongering, egoistic killer and not to mention a “low breed” (perfect for Brahminical interpretation of Mahabharat, they will give him little respect but not more after all he challenges Status quo of self proclaimed upper caste). But if you go anywhere in India and tell people that your son/brother/Father/Husband has Karna like qualities or is Karna, they donot take it as an insult but rather a honour. May be you have not come across such people.
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No problem. It is your interpretation of Mahabharat or to be specific as you have mentioned Mr. Kisari Mohan Ganguli’s.
r a 21st century avataar(s) or human birth form(s) or parts of Lord Ganesha or ir u Maharshii Veda Vyaasa reborn az human so that u know the unabridged undoctored AUTHENTIC Mahaabhaarata word by word, phrase by phrase, clause by clause, sentence4 by sentence, parah by parah, so that u can declare publicly an article to be “biased” ??? plz justify ur slamming/lambasting/lashing out with justified befitting logic, lest people r gonna take u 2 b a person who does blatant blabbery in dayli8!!! an epic that waz composed during the Iron Age in India or the early Vedic/Aryan Civilization period rougly 3 & a half millenium years back iz possessed by u, I think, that u can take potshots at persons who r even presenting logic 2 back their points in this thread —- plz learn to call a spade a spade, don’t take dig at people on online forums’ threads just by trying 2 force some non-canonical stuff which u call “facts” & if they really are facts & canonical, plz show wherein the AUTHENTIC Mahaabhaarata of the early Vedic period r those scripted down!!!!!!!
@ Shailendra r u a 21st century avataar or human birth form or part of Lord Ganesha or ir u Maharshii Veda Vyaasa reborn az human so that u know the unabridged undoctored AUTHENTIC Mahaabhaarata word by word, phrase by phrase, clause by clause, sentence4 by sentence, parah by parah, so that u can declare publicly an article to be “biased” ??? plz justify ur slamming/lambasting/lashing out with justified befitting logic, lest people r gonna take u 2 b a person who does blatant blabbery in dayli8!!! an epic that waz composed during the Iron Age in India or the early Vedic/Aryan Civilization period rougly 3 & a half millenium years back iz possessed by u, I think, that u can take potshots at persons who r even presenting logic 2 back their points in this thread —- plz learn to call a spade a spade, don’t take dig at people on online forums’ threads just by trying 2 force some non-canonical stuff which u call “facts” & if they really are facts & canonical, plz show wherein the AUTHENTIC Mahaabhaarata of the early Vedic period r those scripted down!!!!!!!
@Bhagwat Shah were u present in the Viraatt Yuddha that u r SANGUIN & AASURED that Arjuna DID SINGLE-HANDEDLY & solitarily defeat all those great warriors collectively??? r u Chiranjeevii Ashwaththaamaa’s Kalyug Form of some kind or wht??? Do u think Arjun can ever defeat ur dad, Aachaarya Dron in a 1-on-1 combat, let alone defeat Mahaamahiim Bheeshm & Karn & ur dad & u & ur moron friend cum flatterer Durydhana etc. all collectively??? Have u 4gotten dat ur dad waz the son come student of a Mahaa Saptarshy MahaaMunii Bhaardwaaj & also a student of Bhagwaan Parashuuraama [himself a Saptarshii putra & student of a Supreme deity Lord Shiva & himself a chiranjeevii among the only 8 like u urself r, & also a Tretaa Yugaa Avataar of the great Supreme Deity Lord Vishnuu]??? Don’t u know that ur grandpa & much akin 2 da8, Bhagwaan Parashuuraama’s dad too, r MIND BORN SONS of another Supreme Deity Lord Brahmaa & enriched & enhanced in might & wisdom & intellect by all the 4 Supreme Authorities Lord Shiva, LOrd Brahmaa, Lord VIshnuu & Aady Shaktii???? Don’t u know that ur friend cum flatterer, Duryodhana iz, besides ur dad’s disciple, a disciple of Lortd Balaraama {Dwaapadd Yugaa avataar of Ananta Shesha Naaga, just like Veer Laksmana waz the Tretaa Yuga avataar of that infinitely gr8 divine Naag of Lord Vishnuu upon whom in situated Vaikuntth where Lord Vishnuu & consort, Goddess Laxmii(avataar of Aady Shaktii dwell)} too??? Have u 4gotten that Kartavirya Arjuna waz avataar of Lord Vishnuu’s Sudarshana Chakra he had many boons & powers from his guruu, Datttaatreo, a God, who waz the Avataar of Trimurty(the 3 Supreme Deities combined 2gether) & K.Arjuna had 1000 hands &also made the mighty demon Raavana face the ignominy of a tame demolition??? Have u 4gotten that Raavana, himself being terribly mighty bcoz of innumerable stuff from Lord Shiva, also had his AtiiMahaa Rathy son, Indrajeet, who had tamed Lord of the Demi–Gods, Lord Indra with ease & had terrible weapons like Naagpaasha, Vajra, BrahmashiraAstra, Brahmaastra, Vaishnavaastra, PaashuupatAstra, Vasava Shakty etc. & another Mahaarathy of terrible size, Kumbhakarana az his bro, besides numerous other great warriors & MahaaRathiis — despite da8, K.Arjuna tamed Raakshasa Raavana with ease & Bhagwaan P’raama in turn tamed K.Arjuna with relative ease & in turn, his gr8 student, Bheeshma almost defeated him [at least did not allow P’raama 2 win for 23 days] so how could ur betenoir Arjuna tame Bheeshma & ur father & ur gr8 friend Suryaputra Karna & u all collectively —– oh yes, Ananta Shesha Naaga’s Tretaa Yugaa Avataar’s student, Duryodhana [ur vile friend, a friendship of convenience though — the evil politician that Shakunii waz] too alongwith Vriishasena????
Bhagwaan Parashuuraama iz the 6th Avataar of Lord Vishnuu {one of the 3 Supreme dieties & the God of maintenance} & the son of a Saptarshii only [7 sages, each billions of tymz mightier to angels & demons & demi-gods & anti-gods & giants & Naagas & even some lesser dieties perhaps] !!!!!!! His guruu or preceptor waz none other Lord Shiva [another supreme diety, God of Termination] !!! He himself became a Brahmana (nothing 2 do with the varn/caste ‘Brahmin’) & later onwards a Maha Mahaa Rishy & much later a Mahaa BrahmaRishy too by himself performing tapas & austerities & penances & leadind a strict ascetic life [stuff that could make any person hundrerds of billions of tymz more powerful, yet trillions of tymz wiser & saner] He iz also one of the only 8 chiranjeevis & decapitated Kartavirya Arjuna [the avataar of Lord Vishnuu’s Sudarshana Chakra, who had humilitangly & ignominously routed demon Raavana] He has only 4 disciples —– 3 hitherto {Lord Kalkii iz y8 to b born}, viz; female angel Ganga’s son(Gangaaputra) Mahaamahiim Bheeshm, another Saptarshii’s son(& also disciple) Drona & the Sun Demi–God’s son Karna!!! B had the boon of Ichchhaamrittyuu & 5 great arrows obtained bcoz of his Rishy/Munii style of life despite being a Kshatriya & had not allowed his gr8 preceptor Parashuraama 2 win for 23 days & had almost defeated P’raama Lord in that combat such da8 even Lord Shiva had 2 intervene, D had the infallible Brahmadanda & a chiranjeevii son possessing innumerable divine gems as gifts, in Ashwaththaama, K had, as his BODY PARTS, from birth, an impregnable unpenetrable KAVACHA & 2 KUNDALs granting infinite energy & strength —– physical, spiritual, psychological etc. & these 3 were undoable, besides of course divine, coz they were dipped in the the ancientest of divine ‘amrit’, K also had a divine bow & some special weapons as blessings so as to compensate the curse from his gr8 preceptor P’raama & had several MahaaRathii sons!!!!! If u say that all were defeated single-handedly by Arjuna in the Viraatt Yuddhh, u would incurr Lord P’raama’s & Mahaa Mahaa Rishii Durvaasaa’s & Mahaa Mahaa NaaraayanRishyMuny Naarad’s curses coz in that case, u would just not b insulting Bhagwaan Vishnuu’s avataar Lord P’raama’s teaching prowess, u would also b undermining & lampooning & mocking the great Saptarshii-putra Vishnuu-avataar Brahmin-ChakravartySamraatt Kshatriya-slayer guruu turned MahaaMahaa Rishy’s own might in combat, coz since acc 2 u, Arjuna could defeat single-handedly Bhagwaan P’raama’s students Bheeshma, Drona, Karna alonwith KriipaAacharya, Ashwaththaamaa, Duryodhana, Vriishasena etc. then Arjuna acc. 2 ur logic can easily defeat MahaaMahiim Bheeshma any day of the week which implies that Arjuna can also very easily defeat Bhagwaan Parashuuraama
& remember that the Saptarshiis are MIND BORN SONS of yet another Supreme deity —- Lord Brahma, the God of creation. & these Saptarshiis are immeasurably mighty & wise bcoz of stuff earned from all the 4 Supreme Authorities — Brahmaa, Vishnuu, Shiva & Aady Shakty, not to mention other deities too & it waz the Lord of the Demi–Gods [the Demi–God of Thunder & Lightning] & Arjuna’s father who repeatedly ran for help against asuras & daanavas & raakshashaas & daityas etc. to such rishys & munys & even to those rishys n munys who were not present in the holy commission of the 7 saptarshiis
Hey Mr. @B. Shah!!! Mr. Sheokhanda equated u 2 Draupadii & not “wife of Arjuna” —– don’t u understand the difference between any wife of Arjuna like Uloopii or Subhadraa & DRaupadii????????????? seems da8 u don;t understand this basic difference even & still u call urself a MAHAABHAARATA RESEARCHER????????????????????????????
& yes Mr. @Bhagwat!!! Plz conduct the survey that @Mr. Sheokhanda suggested —– lumber around in Aaryavarta & go about telling that ur family’s males ‘ve Karna like qualities & c whether they treat ur family with contemt/disgust or respect/envy ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
there is only one hero in mahabahart who is the great karan……
nopes yaarr, Mahaabhaarat haz great many a no. of heroes —- Karn iz among the very best of them & although I’m a Karn & Bheeshm fan, i still think Arjuna waz the greatest HERO az he waz the ONE who ended up fighting in compliance with/conforming to Lord Shree Krishnna’s path & role & purpose & ideology & thought process & teachings & preachings & prophecies etc.
One who fights for himself is Duryodhana
One who fi8z 4 his flatterer iz Ashwaththaama
One who fights for his brother’s whims n fancies is Vikarna
One who fights for his dad’s whims n fancies is Laksmana[Gandhaarii’s eldest grandson]
One who fights for his breadgiver is DronaAacharya
One who fights for his brother’s rights is Bheema
One who fights blindly on his father’s summoning is Ghatothkacha
One who fights in compliance with his father’s oath is Vriishasena
One who fights for his step-mom’s justice is Abhimanyuu
One who fights for truth & his subjects’ well-being is Yudhishtthiir
One who fights to fulfill his vow of security to his step-bro’s family is Bheeshma
One who fights to fulfill his word/swearing of allegiance/bondage to his friend is Karna
BUT
One who fights to fulfill the purpose & role of the birth n presence of Lord Vishnuu’s 8th & greatest ever Avataar is Arjuna
arjuna fougt for his pride n nothing else
to me karna is the nost hobel person who ever lived. after reading shivaji sawant MRITUNJAJ i cried for hour. his story reminded me again and again of the great injustice prevailing in this world where discriminations are made against someone without even knowing that person.
i think the moment that defined him was when he cut off his kavach and kundals without thinkin twice to keep his word.
i would request everyone to not watch STAR PLUS’s MAHABHARAT as it had done great injustice to his charecter just to increase their TRP.
hmmmmmmm !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ri8 !!!!!!!!!!!! I too echo ur opinions !!!!!!!!!
no but, Arjuna did not just fi8 4 his pride only; he fought 4 his eldest brother, 4 his wife, 4 his sons, 4 Lord Shree Krishnna, for his dad’s dead soul, for his grandsire(Bheeshma)’s & his uncle Vidura’s satisfaction, & for the well being of the Kuruu clan/Bharata race & his vannsh —— Kuruuvannsh & had he known that the legendary Karna waz none other dan his eldest brother, he would never have fought at all; I’m pretty sure !!!!!!!!!!
Hi all, nice to see you all.
I’m Adisty from Indonesia n I’m a Muslim. But I love Karna so much.
As Indonesian, I don’t have many Mahabharata sources like you. I just read blog which write by Mahabharata n Karna lovers. I wish I can buy n read Mrityunjay, Jaya, Yajnaseni, Now Let Me Sleep, etc, but in Online Shop Amazone, those books has fantastic price n limited. Some books also not available in English. You all lucky than me.
Btw Mahabharata Movie from Star Plus now playing in Indonesia. Now is episode when Arjun won Draupadi’s Swayamvara.
And Palace of Illusion by Chitra Banerji Divakaruni had translate to Indonesia language since 2009. I feel so happy 🙂
I love Karna so deeply n I will share my opinions/view about Mahabharata n Karna.
1. Draupadi is not only insult Karna by call him SutPutra, but also she insult Duryudhana n his father by said “Son of blind father is also blind”. She never ask apologize to Crown Prince Duryudhana or King Dhristharata.
I believe all of you are nice man. But if a girl insult you n your father in public by those words, would you forgive her? I believe almost all of you would be evil soon and makes revenge. Personally, I will slap her mouth, and it is reflect action to show my pride.
Everyone don’t want born as blind man or be son/daughter of blind parents. This is fate. For this case, it is Ambika mistake who close her eyes when she meet Vyasa.
Maybe Dhristarata have blind eyes, but Draupadi has BLIND HEART.
2. HISTORY ALWAYS WRITTEN BY THE WINNERS.
Always remember, although Pandava is not Vyasa Grandsons, they are the winners of Bharatayudha. Pandava is sons of deva (or ordinary man, depend on your view).
I don’t care if Karna was lose from Arjun or Bhima or Drupada or Gandharva or Satyaki or whoever. For me, he is the greatest man in Mahabharata. At least, they are royalty.
If you read entire Mahabharata, you will read in the end Arjun LOSE by THIEVES. And the worst is, all of Khrisna’s widows and wealth are stolen by the thieves.
Arjun (and all Pandava) always together and surround by people who love, care and protect them. Khrisna, Drona, Bhisma, etc. Khrisna always advice Arjun. Drona ask Ekalaya thumb to ensure Arjun superior and questioning Karna family to avoid fight between Karna and Arjun.
Karna always face all his odds alone. Now, you see what happened when Arjun must fight alone, without support from anyone. He even can’t string Gandiva bow. Maybe you will said that Arjun old enough that time. So, may I said that Bhisma is far greater than him because Pandava and Kaurava is his Great Grandson.
Btw, this incident show me:
a. Yudhistira fail to be good ruler, because ‘excellent thieves’ still can attack his brother. He fail to make his people feel secure.
b. Where is Arjun soldiers? Why he not accompany with his soldiers? Why he not ask for help to the nearest military camp in Hastinapura?
c. Who is the teacher of those thieves who defeat Arjun? (Okay, it is not important question).
d. I heard that Pandava make ‘horse sacrifice’ after Bharatayudha to expand their land. Are you sure? Because every country who joint in war need huge soldiers and economic support. They even can’t fight with thieves. Will Hastinapur people support them, after they lose their father, husband n son in Bharatayudha?
Karna is my HERO
I think Pandava is not 100% right and virtue.
I read in someone blog, he say his source is Mahabharata (MB) book named Jaya which write by Indian writer.
He say that everyone in MB had reasons to be evil. And he share about the reason Shaukani become evil.
It started when Pandava insult Kaurava as WIDOW’s SONS. Kaurava, feel confused because Dhristarata still alive, ask that words to Bhisma. Bhisma then looking for Gandhari history.
In her maiden day, a priest said that Gandhari’s first husband will have short life and the second husband will have long life. Believing the priest, Gandari parent marrying her with a goat, and soon the goat sacrifice. So, when married with Dhristarata, Gandari is a widow. And the worst, all of Gandari sons have status as sons of -dead- goat, since all of Gandari sons are claim as sons of her first husband.
Bhisma got very angry. He jailed all Gandari family members (about 100 man n woman). He want kill them, but the priest said that you can’t killed your guest. So, Bhisma gives them one piece of rice for each person and limited water everyday. Knows that Bhisma want to kill them, King Saubala (Shaukani and Gandari father) ask his family to collect the rice and let only his youngest son (Shaukani) to eat all rice. So, only Shaukani survive and make a revenge for all of his family members who dead in his eyes.
But I don’t know how Shaukani survive and why Bhisma forgiven him. I don’t have the book.
But, we can make conclusion.
1. Pandava and Kaurava insult each other since childhood and their parents and elders don’t do something to avoid them. If I were the parent, I will punish my child and ask them to ask apologize.
2. Where Pandava know about Gandari dark history? Which make Gandari and Shaukani lost their entire family members and became orphan.
If Pandava can know Gandari story, it is not shocking that Kaurava also know about Pandava real father (and in my opinion they are not Deva/God) and about Kunti illegal son.
3. This incident make Shaukani became evil, moreover the same Bhisma force his sister Gandari to married blindman. He want to destroy all Kuru family (Pandava n also Kaurava) whom protect by Bhisma. So, Bhisma can feel what Shaukani feel. And in the end, Bhisma see the doom of Kuru where (almost) none of Kuru descendant survive from the war. Even Parikhesit almost die.
So, MB is happen because
1. Kaurava insult Pandava because they are not Pandu biology sons, and Pandava insult Kaurava as sons of widow.
2. Amba and Shaukani want to make revenge to Bhisma.
3. Kaurava insulted by Draupadi (sons of blindman is blind), and Draupadi insulted by Kaurava.
4. Drona and Drupada hate each other.
For me, MB is story about POLITIC. Two family (Pandu n Dhristarata) who fight each other to win the THRONE of Hastinapura.
If Pandava always do right thing, they should only take Indraprastha and left Hastinapura for King Dhristarata and Yuyutsu, or Vrishaketu (Karna last son). But, Pandava take it all, even they held ‘horse sacrifice’ to expand their land. Is it not enough widows and orphans in Hastinapura after the war?
I don’t believe MB is war between Dharma n Adharma. I don’t believe Pandava are sons of gods. Where is Indra when his son (Arjun) defeated by thieves and can’t save Khrisna wives? The same Indra who take Karna’s Kavack Kundal to protect his son.
Why Yudhistira go to hell just because lie to his Guru Drona? Why he not go to hell for looooooong time because he stake his wealth, kingdom, all his brother and his wife in Gamble? Why he not go to hell because he not protect his wife when Kichaka molested her? Even he ask his wife not to play drama!
Yudhistira curse his mother when he know the truth about Karna. But he never angry to her when she ask her sons to share Draupadi. “My mother ask me, and I obey her”. Really good boy.
Everyone should know that Drupada make great Yajna sacrifice to earn son who can kill Drona. You can’t held great Yajna in secret way. God give him one son (Dhritayuma) and one daughter (Drupadi). So everyone know that he want a revenge.
Why Pandava (and also Kaurava) want to marry with the enemy of their Guru Drona. Why they like to be son in law of a man who held Yajna to have a killer child. Why they not hesitated to married a woman who predict to be cause of great destroy and her brother predicted will kill Drona someday.
Okay, for Kaurava, maybe they are invented to attend the Swayamvara. But Pandava? Is there no other kingdom who have a beautiful princess and can protect them in their exile?
Moreover Arjun, who given Brahmanstra mantra (Kaurava not), given Chakravyuha science (Kaurava not), given Gandiva, Drona also protect him from Ekalaya and Karna. And the result, Arjun marry Draupadi, who her father and brother want to kill Arjun’s guru.
Actually, there is so many ‘why question’ in my heart,,,
This mail is for all the recent posts –
* There are many folk stories about MB. Shakuni’s family being wiped out is one such baseless story because in the final battle Shakuni losses many brothers and sons before dying.
* Even now people are called by their ancestor’s profession – Smith, Butler, Daruwala, etc. Draupadi simply said I don’t want to be Mrs Suta. Her choice!
* Draupadi or Pandavas never said sons of blind are blind. They simply called Duryodhan – Dhartarastra – son of Dhrutarastra. Just like Pandavas were named after Pandu and Vasudeva was named after Vasudev. People have twisted the word Dhartarastra to mean what they wanted. Duryodhan as the heir was regularly called Dhartarastra by everyone including Karna – check it out in the MB.
* Arjun was opposed by Bhishma and Drona in several battles including Virat and Kurushetra. At Virat everyone was against Arjun.
* Karna was assisted in his battles by Kaurav army including Drona and Bhishma. In the final battle he chose not to fight under Bhishma – his choice.
* Arjun was old, tired, upset at loss of Krishna etc when he was defeated by thieves. This only shows that the best of us can suffer reversals of fortune. Pandavas suffered several times.
Most of you who are commenting on this site have never read the MB – original or its authentic english translations. You are all commenting on what you have heard or read from recent authors and not Vyasa.
I would encourage you to read the http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/maha/index.htm before making your comments.
again the legendary @Bhagwat Shah tries 2 defend RACISM & CASTEISM & CASTE–based deprivation/oppression/atrocization/torture just on the flimsy ground “……….I don’t want to be Mrs Suta. Her choice!”
again Mr. Shah iz thinking himself 2 b a 21st Century rebirth of Maharshii Veda Vyaasa & iz giving a certificate 2 da “translatory” work by Kisari Mohan Ganguli (& Pratap Chandra Roy) ————————————— do u, o Bhagwat Shah sire, not know dat archaeological excavations n scientific evidences n astronomical analogy etc. have proved MAHABHARATA events 2 b during circa./ca./c. 3200 BCE/BC ?????? [thats y people who consider da MHBRT az only a MYTH &/or a personal tale/composition/epic/story must b condemned az v have enough evidences now 2 establish dat MHBRT iz indeed HISTORY]
Do u not know, aadarneeya Shah mahodaye g, dat the oldest ancientest text on MHBRT discovered so far dates back not earlier dan ca. 4th Century BC????? don’t u know, o B.Shah sire, dat NPTEL{the Web Portal of the IITs, ISM–Dhanbad, IISc etc.} themselves have stated “The exact date of composition of the epic is unknown, but it is said to have between 300 BC and 300 AD” http://www.nptel.ac.in/courses/109104050/lecture33/33_3.htm
wikipedia page on MHBRT says:: “..The oldest preserved parts of the text are thought to be not much older than around 400 BCE……………………………..The text probably reached its final form by the early Gupta period (c. 4th century)”
http://www.nptel.ac.in/courses/109104050/lecture2/2_2.htm shows::: “……….Although we do not have definitive information about dates of composition or identity of authors, we do certainly know that numerous works on various disciplines were produced in ancient India. The earliest texts that we know of are the Vedas which are believed to have been composed around 1500 BC. One of the earliest literary texts is the Natyashastra believed to have been written by Bharata any time between 400 BC and 400 CE. The religious epics of Ramayana and Mahabharata were significant influences. Believed to have been composed by Valmiki and Vyasa respectively, these epics were orally passed on from one generation to another till they were recorded in writing, but it is difficult to pinpoint the actual dates of composition.”
http://www.nptel.ac.in/courses/109104050/lecture2/2_5.htm shows::: “The common thread that we find in almost all the works in ancient India are the epics of Ramayana and Mahabharata. The Ramayana which is the older of the two was written in Sanskrit and believed to have
been committed to writing in 300 CE. Even at a very early stage it was translated into almost all existing Indian languages. In fact, its influence is not confined to just India but all of Southeast Asia. Valmiki’s text which is now considered the authentic one, is believed to be but one of the many Ramayanas that deal with the same story line. So the translations of the epic are also like free retellings. One other aspect could be that the concept of fidelity to the original was absent in India also, like the ancient west. Since literature was mainly orally transmitted, the idea of accuracy in conveying the literary work to another language could not be sustained. These retellings were often influenced by the world view of the group that was doing the translation/adaptation. The Indian historian Romila Thapar notes: “The appropriation of the story by a multiplicity of groups meant a multiplicity of versions through which the social aspirations and ideological concerns of each group were articulated. The story in these versions included significant variations which changed the conceptualization of character, event and meaning.” (qtd in Richman, 4).
Like translations of the Bible, the Ramayana translations also had the effect of enriching and standardizing regional languages that were still in the formative stage. Some of them are Tulsidas’s Ramcharitmanas in Hindi, Kamban’s Ramavataram in Tamil, Ezhuthachchan’s Adhyatma Ramayanam in Malayalam, and Krittivasa’s Ramayana in Bengali. The language of these regional variations is the common man’s language as opposed to Sanskrit which could be understood only by a few. The same is true of the other great epic the Mahabharata also .”
http://www.nptel.ac.in/courses/109104050/lecture2/2_7.htm shows::: “The Indian tradition of translation was a free adaptation of source material and was really retelling rather”
http://www.nptel.ac.in/courses/109104050/lecture2/2_10.htm shows::: “Translation in India has the tradition of appropriation and recreation. For instance, what is the term for translation in an Indian language? In Sanskrit the term is ‘anuvad’, meaning ‘to say after’ while in some other Indian languages the words are terms ‘bhashantar’ (change from one language to another), ‘roopantar’, or ‘tarzuma’ (change from one code to another in terms of external form or language). In a way they reflect the issues in the translation field today in India.”
http://www.nptel.ac.in/courses/109104050/lecture4/4_5.htm says::: “Jakobson points out how difficult it is to achieve complete equivalence because of the complexity of the codes involved. Even in intralingual translation we have to make use of combination of code units to interpret meaning. So even synonyms cannot guarantee full equivalence. This becomes complicated when the SL and TL are different. In addition to the difference between two language systems, cultural differences also pose huge barriers to translation activity. Eugene Nida says: “Since no two languages are identical, either in the meanings given to corresponding symbols or in the ways in which such symbols are arranged in phrases and sentences, it stands to reason that there can be no absolute correspondence between languages. Hence there can be no fully exact translations” (Venuti 126).”
http://www.nptel.ac.in/courses/109104050/lecture33/33_4.htm has this::: “Mahabharata has been translated into all the Indian languages and also into English. However, the word translation is perhaps a misnomer for the texts in Indian languages that have made use of the basic Mahabharata story. Firstly, it is difficult to have a translation of a text that has such a fluid nature as this. The basic text is supposed to be the compilation by a few people and not the work of one author Vyasa. In fact, it is said that Vyasa means editor or the one who collated the work of numerous people. Since it passed on through the oral tradition, we can only guess at the numerous accretions or deletions that it went through. The Mahabharata was like a rolling stone which paradoxically gathered moss as it rolled from one generation to another, with the result that it has multiple versions in different parts of India. In some ways this bears out the truth of the statement in the epic: “Poets have told it before, poets are telling it now, other poets shall tell this history on earth in the future” ”
o Mr. Shah, y don’t u understand da simple fact dat the FIRST–EVER MHBRT{ca. 3200BCE} iz not da 1 which KM Ganguli moshaaii translated in the late 1880s ——————————- much rather, KM Ganguli & Pratap Chandra Roy translated from possibly a ca. 200 AD(or CE) work ———————— dat c. 200CE text mi8 though ‘ve been penned down by a nth order(‘n’ belongs 2 da set of NATURAL NUMBERS) disciple of Bhagwaan Veda Vyaasa, & dat ‘n’ value might b enormous coz there’z a 3 millenia time gap [as far da concept of ‘order of disciple’ iz concerned I’m giving a simple example::::: Drona was a 1st order student/disciple of Lord Parshuuraama, Arjuna was a student/disciple of Drona & thus a 2nd order student/disciple of Lord Parshuuraama, Arjuna took Karna’s 2nd oldest & only surviving son Vriishaketuu under his tutelage, thus Vriishaketuu waz a student/disciple of Arjuna & thus a 2nd order student/disciple of Drona & a 3rd order student/shishya/disciple of Lord Parshuuraama & so on…………………………………………………………………………………………………..]
just c what NPTEL states:::: “…..the translations of the epic are also like free retellings.”
“Since literature was mainly orally transmitted, the idea of accuracy in conveying the literary work to another language could not be sustained. These retellings were often influenced by the world view of the group that was doing the translation/adaptation”
“The Indian historian Romila Thapar notes: “The appropriation of the story by a multiplicity of groups meant a multiplicity of versions through which the social aspirations and ideological concerns of each group were articulated. The story in these versions included significant variations which changed the conceptualization of character, event and meaning.” (qtd in Richman, 4). ”
“”The Indian tradition of translation was a free adaptation of source material and was really retelling rather ”
“Translation in India has the tradition of appropriation and recreation”
“Jakobson points out how difficult it is to achieve complete equivalence because of the complexity of the codes involved. Even in intralingual translation we have to make use of combination of code units to interpret meaning. So even synonyms cannot guarantee full equivalence. This becomes complicated when the SL and TL are different. In addition to the difference between two language systems, cultural differences also pose huge barriers to translation activity. Eugene Nida says: “Since no two languages are identical, either in the meanings given to corresponding symbols or in the ways in which such symbols are arranged in phrases and sentences, it stands to reason that there can be no absolute correspondence between languages. Hence there can be no fully exact translations” (Venuti 126).”
So, pleaze, o Bhagwat Shah sire, pleaze do not hoodwink innocent law–abiding guilt–free saadaa—seedhhaa people in2 believing dat the work by KM Ganguli iz nothing other than that AUTHENTIC MHBRT az recited by MahaaMaharshii Veda Vyaasa himself 2 none other than Lord Ganesha sometime during ca. 3200 BCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😛
Thank you @Bhagwat Shah, for your comment.
Actually, I have some other questions, would you like to answer?
1. My biggest curiosity is, WHY PANDU NOT BACK TO HASTINAPUR?
I read that Pandu curse by Brahmana Kindamana because Pandu kill him when he making love with her wife in the form of deer. Kindamana curse Pandu that he will died when he have sex with his wife. So, Pandu leave Hastinapur with his wives (actually he should not bring his wives since he shouldn’t touch them).
Then, the story goes that Kunti tell him about ‘the call God Mantra’. My question is, why Pandu not back to Hastinapur and do his job as a king, soon after the birth of Yudhistira or Bhima? He look enjoy his life in the jungle and not interesting to back to Hastinapur, to make sure that his sons got their right (as crown prince or at least get royal education). He not back to Hastinapur to responsibility his duty as a king (Dhristarata is just caretaker, isn’t he?).
And if Pandu family (Bhisma, Dhristarata and Vidura) knows about this curse, it is not surprised that Hastinapur people also know about this curse and that Pandava are not Pandu biology sons. Are Pandava have right to the crown?
2. If Khrisna and Kunti want a peace and save my Karna, he should uncover Karna identity in front of Duryudhana and the elders of Hastinapur. Not in secret. That’s why I think that MB is politic history, not Dharma vs Adharma. They fight for Hartinapur crown.
3. Thank for your advice about read Sacred Text. But I think it is not original.
I pay more attention about Draupadi Vastraharan, a moment where Dursasana try to pull Draupadi dress and make her naked. But Khrisna save her by send unlimited clothes.
I pay attention because this is the case where some people bullying my ‘husband’ Karna.
I read some blog which questioning this case. Why? It is because..
a. When meet Khrisna in the exile, Draupadi said “I have no husbands, no father, no brother, no sons and even you”. If Khrisna really save Draupadi, she should say thanks. But she said that she not have Khrisna that night.
b. In the exile, Draupadi always make sure that Pandava remember how Dursasana dragged her hair. Why she not remembering her husbands about how Dursasana try to pull her dress.
c. In Bharatayudha, when Bhima kill Dursasana, Bhima said “With which hand you dragged Draupadi hair?!!!”. He should questioning about which hand Dursasana pull Draupadi clothes.
My point is, in sacred-text, story about Dursasana pull Draupadi dress (Draupadi Vastraharan) is only talk in the hall of Hastinapur. After that, the text just talk about Dursasana pull Draupadi hair. So, personally, I’m not sure that sacred-text is authentic.
I believe that MB is real story, not just a myth, which held thousand years ago. Some people predicted that MB held about 3000 BC. So, it is very difficult (or impossible) to find authentic story. Moreover, HISTORY ALWAYS WRITE BY THE WINNER.
absolutely, o @Adisty mam !!!!!!!!!!
dat work by Misari Mohan Ganguli in 1880–1895{whose link the LEGENDARY Bhagwat Shah gave 2 u} iz infact actually a translation from infact a later age PERSONAL retelling/recreation/modified/adapted/personally–influenced n doctored work composed much much after(say ca. 200BC\BCE — 100 BCE —- ca. 200CE\AD — 300 AD\CE at the earliest), infact several millenia after da original authentic historical events/occurrences & the ORIGINAL AUTHENTIC CANONICAL TRUE GENUINE recitation 2 Lord Ganesha by MahaaMaharshii Veda Vyaasa(ca. 3200 BCE\BC)
pleaze, o venerable lady @Adisty mam, plz read my GIGANTIC MAMMOTH comment “again the legendary @Bhagwat Shah tries 2 defend………………….”(published on 13th July 2014 at 4:49PM) in reply 2 Bhagwat Shah’s reply 2 ur ownself’s comment & pleaze, o honourable lady @Adisty mam, plz do c da links & plz carefully c how I’ve substantiated my logic opinion against Bhagwat Shah(dat Bhagwat Shah who iz renowned in the entire Universe as a Karna–hater & a RACISM|CASTEISM supporter & a CASTIST\RACIAL PROFILING justifier & a CASTE–based atrocities’ endorser)………………………………………………………………
@Bhagwat Shah @Ling Raaj {these 2 bloggers seem 2 b da same person if 1 carefully probes the comments in this blog by Mr. Sheokhanda} u people called my comments as “pointless”, yet u people have never had the patience 2 read my SUBSTANTIATED extensive comprehensive comments carefully & thoroughly in between the lines; u people fail 2 c/notice clearly visible points & rationale & reasoning n a comment, but still abuse dat concerned comment as “pointless”. despite dat, how the hell did impatient people like u{who, bcoz of impatience n haste, miss out on a hell lot of details of fellow commentators’ comments/opinions} have the courage 2 self–proclaim themselves as “Mahabharat researchers”???? 😛
u people asked me kii what proof I have, ri8????? well, in bulk of the cases, I’ve either (i) questioned some comments by fellow readers/visitors/commentators/blog–surfers as those defied logic\rationale\reasoning or (ii) appreciated & lauded some comments by fellow readers/visitors/commentators/blog–surfers as those fell in line with logic\rationale\reasoning ———————————————- I’ve never, however, lauded/appreciated/praised or criticized/lampooned/lambasted any comment bcoz of it being CANONICAL or NON–CANONICAL w.r.t.(with reference to) any version of the MHBRT ————————————– infact, I took dig/swipe at ur comments only on the basis of logic/reasoning/rationale & when u LEGENDS took out excerpts from a particular version as “your proofs” {u people infact brazenly violated the definition of ‘proof’ therein}, all I did waz 2 question da credibility of those stuff dat u wrongly termed as “proofs” —————————- now, just bcoz of questioning the credibility of dat which u tried 2 PUSH/PRESS & ASSERT & IMPOSE & declare blatantly as “proof” & bcoz of xposing all the related loopholes by myself, I’d 2 suffer castigation/admonishment/personality–assassination/chastising from u people & u people even went 2 da extent of asking me 2 present proofs ————————— yeah, I admit this that I challenged u 2 justify & back the credibility of what u incorrectly defined as “proof” & when u undertook my challenge, I presented proofs myself 2 establish the non–credibility of da same, so u guyz shamelessly lost dat battle against me & fled away 4 good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
u guyz even went 2 da extreme xtent of stating dat I hoodwink/trick people in2 believing concocted/incorrect facts 😛 wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! god knowz how u guyz even dare 2 use the tearm “facts” coz each n every stuff dat u people tried 2 PUSH & ASSERT & IMPOSE as facts went haywire az they were logically\rationally unfeasible/impossible n unreasonable/implausible
u guyz time n again called my comments n arguements flawed & without merits ———————————– u guyz classified as “low” the level of my research n analysis n understanding on\of MHBRT. u even went 2 da xtent of issuing such an offensively toned sub–comment:: “Like Karna, you are using abusive language to try and shout people down on this blog. If this is your chosen method of debate, I doubt its worth replying to your posts.”. u even stated::: “Your research is so flawed that you have not even figured out that Shri Krishna never had a girlfriend called ‘Radha’…………….
If this is the level of your research, I would have serious reservations about anything you have to say about Mahabharata……………………
There is no point in arguing with an ignoramus and so I doubt if I will bother to respond to your pointless posts in the future.” 😛 u also said these::::: (i)”Your crude and rude posts do not merit replies. Believe what you will. Facts will not change because of your rants.” {u kept ranting/barbing & repeatedly kept calling Karna as Mr. Suuta & still u find the logical rational comments from fellow readers as “rants” RIP definitions & RIP dictionary 😛 } (ii)”Just as I wasn’t there during the war of Mahabharata, nor were you or any current author you consider to be pro or anti Karna. Yvasa was there and what he wrote is what I go by. Having read the Sanskrit and English translations side by side, I know which translations I trust.” {ohhh, so u TRUST a particular version (which’s 1880–1896 translation of a work almost 3 millenia after Vyaasa’s recitation 2 Lord Shree Ganesha) & thus you would COMPELL n FORCE fellow readers 2 follow dat “version u trust”!!!!! wow!!!!!!!!!!!!! RIP Democracy, RIP Republic, RIP constitution, RIP Fundamental Rights, RIP Human Rights !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!} (iii)”You are using the language of the Kauravas…………..” :P{means u urselves saw n heard in person kii exactly what language Duryodhana + 99 bros & Shakuunii used 2 practise in ca. 3200 BCE LOL 😛 RoFL 😛 } (iv)”I am sad to see that scholarly debate is shouted down in this blog and pro-Karna fans are jumping up and down everytime they are shown any proof against their hero. They even doubt the accepted versions of the Itihaas and claim to know more than the scholars who have studied several variants of the texts to come to a good conclusion.” ——————————————————— I ask u, wht CREDIBLE proof(in the true sense of the erm) were u able u show against “their hero”???? u violated da definition of proof ri8 at da start by presenting illogical irrational excerpts as ur “proofs” & which were clearly defeated n vanquished or at least established 2 b non–credible\implausible by many(including me) after questioning u of their credibility\plausibility & challenging u 2 justify n back ur term “proof” first up 4 such stuff; & as far as dat “DOUBTING” iz concerned, u once again callously gave da certificate “ACCEPTED” 2 those versions —————- u should conduct a nationwide survey 2 justify n establish ur adjective\certificate\testimony “ACCEPTED” 4 those versions “which u trust” first & BTW, whom did u refer 2 by “THEY” whilst saying “THEY even doubt the accepted versions of the Itihaas and claim to know more than the scholars who have studied several variants of the texts to come to a good conclusion.” ——————————————- which reasonable logical reasoning–oriented person have u found who harbours such DOUBTS & makes such CLAIMS????? plz b specific !!!!!!!!!!! name those “SCHOLARS who studied several variants…………….” first !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! y, is Romesh Chander Dutt, ICS officer or Kaviguruu Rabindranaath Tagore or Ramdhari Singh Dinkar etc. not scholars or what, in your opinion(IYO)????? according 2 u, only Kisari Mohan Ganguli iz a scholar or what???????????????????????????????????????????? & pleaze also do mention the “Several variants of texts” 😛 & also plz throw li8 upon that “good conclusion” 😛 —————————————— come on, b specific; don’t b scared of logical rational non–stereotyped reasoning—oriented intelligent readers n internet surfers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do u even know the definition of ‘good conclusion’???? ‘good conclusion’ always needs the aspect of unanimous acceptance & a personal “conclusion” from ANTI–NATIONAL ANTI–SOCIAL MISANTHOPE BIGOTED NON–PATRIOTIC CHAUVINISTIC SOCIETY–HATER CASTEIST n CASTE\CLASS\SECT\COMMUNITY\RACE–BASED OPPRESSOR/ATROCIZER/ABUSER/TORMENTOR/PERPERATOR MISANDRIST HUMAN–RIGHTS VIOLATING CONSTITUTION+DEMOCRACY+REPUBLIC+LEGAL—Set–up+LEGISLATIONS|LAWS|ACTS+FUNDAMENTAL–RIGHTS—-DISRESPECTING\VIOLATING LEGENDS like u have no importance 2 da general mass, coz those so–called “conclusions” even go against LOGIC RATIONALE REASONING PLAUSIBILITY FEASIBILITY WISDOM INTELLIGENCE(not 2 mention, social az well as scientific norms) & also go against HUMANITY & in this case, they r even going against evidences n proofs substantiated by scientific background & archaeological excavations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂
@Bhagwat Shah @Ling Raaj {these 2 bloggers seem 2 b da same person if 1 carefully probes the comments in this blog of Mr. Sheokhanda} u people called my comments as “pointless”, yet u people have never had the patience 2 read my SUBSTANTIATED extensive comprehensive comments carefully & thoroughly in between the lines; u people fail 2 c/notice clearly visible points & rationale & reasoning in a comment, but still abuse dat concerned comment as “pointless”. despite dat, how the hell did impatient people like u{who, bcoz of impatience n haste, miss out on a hell lot of details of fellow commentators’ comments/opinions} have the courage 2 self–proclaim themselves as “Mahabharat researchers”???? 😛
u people asked me kii what proof I have, ri8????? well, in bulk of the cases, I’ve either (i) questioned some comments by fellow readers/visitors/commentators/blog–surfers as those defied logic\rationale\reasoning or (ii) appreciated & lauded some comments by fellow readers/visitors/commentators/blog–surfers as those fell in line with logic\rationale\reasoning ———————————————- I’ve never, however, lauded/appreciated/praised or criticized/lampooned/lambasted any comment bcoz of it being CANONICAL or NON–CANONICAL w.r.t.(with reference to) any version of the MHBRT ————————————– infact, I took dig/swipe at ur comments only on the basis of logic/reasoning/rationale & when u LEGENDS took out excerpts from a particular version as “your proofs” {u people infact brazenly violated the definition of ‘proof’ therein}, all I did waz 2 question da credibility of those stuff dat u wrongly termed as “proofs” —————————- now, just bcoz of questioning the credibility of dat which u tried 2 PUSH/PRESS & ASSERT & IMPOSE & declare blatantly as “proof” & bcoz of xposing all the related loopholes by myself, I’d 2 suffer castigation/admonishment/personality–assassination/chastising from u people & u people even went 2 da extent of asking me 2 present proofs ————————— yeah, I admit this that I challenged u 2 justify & back the credibility of what u incorrectly defined as “proof” & when u undertook my challenge, I presented proofs myself 2 establish the non–credibility of da same, so u guyz shamelessly lost dat battle against me & fled away 4 good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
u guyz even went 2 da extreme xtent of stating dat I hoodwink/trick people in2 believing concocted/incorrect facts 😛 wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! god knowz how u guyz even dare 2 use the tearm “facts” coz each n every stuff dat u people tried 2 PUSH & ASSERT & IMPOSE as facts went haywire az they were logically\rationally unfeasible/impossible n unreasonable/implausible
u guyz time n again called my comments n arguements flawed & without merits ———————————– u guyz classified as “low” the level of my research n analysis n understanding on\of MHBRT. u even went 2 da xtent of issuing such an offensively toned sub–comment:: “Like Karna, you are using abusive language to try and shout people down on this blog. If this is your chosen method of debate, I doubt its worth replying to your posts.”. u even stated::: “Your research is so flawed that you have not even figured out that Shri Krishna never had a girlfriend called ‘Radha’…………….
If this is the level of your research, I would have serious reservations about anything you have to say about Mahabharata……………………
There is no point in arguing with an ignoramus and so I doubt if I will bother to respond to your pointless posts in the future.” 😛 u also said these::::: (i)”Your crude and rude posts do not merit replies. Believe what you will. Facts will not change because of your rants.” {u kept ranting/barbing & repeatedly kept calling Karna as Mr. Suuta & still u find the logical rational comments from fellow readers as “rants” RIP definitions & RIP dictionary 😛 } (ii)”Just as I wasn’t there during the war of Mahabharata, nor were you or any current author you consider to be pro or anti Karna. Yvasa was there and what he wrote is what I go by. Having read the Sanskrit and English translations side by side, I know which translations I trust.” {ohhh, so u TRUST a particular version (which’s 1880–1896 translation of a work almost 3 millenia after Vyaasa’s recitation 2 Lord Shree Ganesha) & thus you would COMPELL n FORCE fellow readers 2 follow dat “version u trust”!!!!! wow 😛 !!!!!!!!!!!!! RIP Democracy, RIP Republic, RIP constitution, RIP Fundamental Rights, RIP Human Rights !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😛 } (iii)”You are using the language of the Kauravas…………..” 😛 {means u urselves saw n heard in person kii exactly what language Duryodhana + 99 bros & Shakuunii used 2 practise in ca. 3200 BCE LOL 😛 RoFL 😛 } (iv)”I am sad to see that scholarly debate is shouted down in this blog and pro-Karna fans are jumping up and down everytime they are shown any proof against their hero. They even doubt the accepted versions of the Itihaas and claim to know more than the scholars who have studied several variants of the texts to come to a good conclusion.” ——————————————————— I ask u, wht CREDIBLE proof(in the true sense of the erm) were u able u show against “their hero”???? u violated da definition of proof ri8 at da start by presenting illogical irrational excerpts as ur “proofs” & which were clearly defeated n vanquished or at least established 2 b non–credible\implausible by many(including me) after questioning u of their credibility\plausibility & challenging u 2 justify n back ur term “proof” first up 4 such stuff; & as far as dat “DOUBTING” iz concerned, u once again callously gave da certificate “ACCEPTED” 2 those versions —————- u should conduct a nationwide survey 2 justify n establish ur adjective\certificate\testimony “ACCEPTED” 4 those versions “which u trust” first & BTW, whom did u refer 2 by “THEY” whilst saying “THEY even doubt the accepted versions of the Itihaas and claim to know more than the scholars who have studied several variants of the texts to come to a good conclusion.” ——————————————- which reasonable logical reasoning–oriented person have u found who harbours such DOUBTS & makes such CLAIMS????? plz b specific !!!!!!!!!!! name those “SCHOLARS who studied several variants…………….” first !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! y, is Romesh Chander Dutt, ICS officer or Kaviguruu Rabindranaath Tagore or Ramdhari Singh Dinkar etc. not scholars or what, in your opinion(IYO)????? according 2 u, only Kisari Mohan Ganguli iz a scholar or what???????????????????????????????????????????? & pleaze also do mention the “Several variants of texts” 😛 & also plz throw li8 upon that “good conclusion” 😛 —————————————— come on, b specific; don’t b scared of logical rational non–stereotyped reasoning—oriented intelligent readers n internet surfers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do u even know the definition of ‘good conclusion’???? ‘good conclusion’ always needs the aspect of unanimous acceptance & a personal “conclusion” from ANTI–NATIONAL ANTI–SOCIAL MISANTHOPE BIGOTED NON–PATRIOTIC CHAUVINISTIC SOCIETY–HATER CASTEIST n CASTE\CLASS\SECT\COMMUNITY\RACE–BASED OPPRESSOR/ATROCIZER/ABUSER/TORMENTOR/PERPERATOR MISANDRIST HUMAN–RIGHTS VIOLATING CONSTITUTION+DEMOCRACY+REPUBLIC+LEGAL—Set–up+LEGISLATIONS|LAWS|ACTS+FUNDAMENTAL–RIGHTS—-DISRESPECTING\VIOLATING LEGENDS like u have no importance 2 da general mass, coz those so–called “conclusions” even go against LOGIC RATIONALE REASONING PLAUSIBILITY FEASIBILITY WISDOM INTELLIGENCE(not 2 mention, social az well as scientific norms) & also go against HUMANITY & in this case, they r even going against evidences n proofs substantiated by scientific background & archaeological excavations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂 =D
This is obviously a place where only pro Karna comments are welcome. No genuine dissenting view is allowed or appreciated. Well, it’s your loss. You will never expand your knowledge beyond your limited understanding with your current attitudes. Good luck to you guys 🙂
once again u r promoting divisiveness & fragmentations & quarrels & polarization etc. by using nomenclatures like “pro–Karna” & “anti–Karna”
& anywayz, u r spoiling this blog/thread/debate by issuing such a dismissive n dangerous statement::: “This is obviously a place where only pro Karna comments are welcome. No genuine dissenting view is allowed or appreciated” ——————————- don’t try 2 act like a justice/judge from a judiciary\court, o Bhagwat Shah legendary sire………………………………
ohh yes, every kind of dissenting view iz always welcomed ————- but Mr. Shah, u should also welcome reciprocating dissents & questions & challenges & counter–arguements etc. 2 those “dissenting views” ————————————- thatz when a blog bcumz UNBIASED(in the true sense of the term) & beneficial(2 da society) ——————————- a legend like u has not even noticed dat on numerous occasions I spoke in favour of Arjuna az well in this blog\on this thread, whenever any reader\blogger lampooned/lambasted Arjuna & called Arjuna names etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! & seriously, even now u self–proclaim ur opinion az “GENUINE” , wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! u should better read all my comments carefully, without getting enfuriated 😛 , coz my intention was nowhere close 2 take part in squabbles ————————– my motive has always been 2 allow LOGIC & RATIONALE dominate over stereotyped UNWISE thoughts
& u were talking of non–expansion of my knowledge, ri8, ehhhh????!!!!!!!!!!!! did u not c those multiple links and LOGICS & topics & informations & facts etc. I mentioned yesterday????? did u not visit those links at least????? if u did not, then it is clearly evident dat IT IS YOU WHO DOESN’T WANNA EXPAND HIS KNOWLEDGE BEYOND HIS LIMITED LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING
& o @Ling Raaj & @Bhagwat Shah. u also said this 2 me::: “…………….you or any current author you consider to be pro or anti Karna………..” —————————— now my simple lucid questions is:: did I ever mention any classify any current author as such as either anti–Karna or pro–Karna????? infact, I did not even mention any name of my own except 4 doze whose names u people urselves mentioned & who r anywayz no way any kind of current authors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! then who the hell gave u the right 2 issue such a statement dat I “categorize certain authors as anti–Karna & certain az pro–Karna”????? r u any spokesperson on my behlaf??? r u any confidante or aide or parent or guardian or consort or brother or cousin or business–partner etc. of mine????????????????????? can u read the minds of fellow–internet surfers & if u can, can u prove n establish dat what u say they’re thinking iz indeed what they r thinking in reality?????????? can u hypnotize people???????????????????????????
really, u’ve proven dat u r pak-kaa POLARIZING DIVISIVE ANTI–SOCIAL ANTI–NATIONAL ANTI–HUMANITY elements who just know 2 take sides & who practise bias n prejudicism n INEQUALITY n endorse RIGHTS VIOLATIONs & who even egg/encourage law–abiding innocent guilt–free masses 2 get estranged from unbiased equality–oriented ideologies & infact even try 2 FORCEFULLY incorporate/inject those VILE VICIOUS EVIL divisiveness & polarized & taking—of—sides—-ideology\thought–process in2 da innocent people —————————- itz bcoz of people like u dat the CONCEPT of UNITY & UNDIVIDED/UNFRAGMENTED/NON–POLARIZED society iz impeded/inhibited & needless 2 say, da issues/aspects of EQUALITY & JUSTICE etc. also suffer heavily\tremendously bcoz of ANTI–SOCIALs like u!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you have read the Sanskrit versions of the Mahabharata, you can see how accurate KM Ganguli’s version is. I suggest you seek Bhandarkar Institute’s copies of the original if you are able to read Sanskrit.
* Pandu suffered from bad health. Mountain air was good for him (we still go to hill stations to recover from illnesses). Princes often spent formative years in forests to make them strong and fearless. Pandu did not think he would die so young and so they stayed in the forest during the early years of the princes.
* Like the Pandavas, Pandu and Dhritrastra were also product of emergency measures.
* Krushna never told Draupadi that he saved her. Hence she felt she was abandoned by everyone in her hour of absolute need. Haven’t we often felt abandoned even though others have said they tried to aid us?
* Krushna did not tell all and sundry, “I am God.” Until SMB Gita, he did not even tell Arjun this. God does not advertise himself. He simply does his work. It’s up to us to discover that work and appreciate the greatness of God for doing his work silently.
* Bhima knew which hand(s) pulled Draupadi’s hair and clothes. He was challenging Dushashan to see if he owns up to his misdeeds or begs forgiveness. Even at the point of death, Dushashan and Duryodhan felt no remorse at their misdeeds. For that reason, no one ever names their sons Dushashan or Duryodhan.
* Dhrut sabha is the lowest point for Karna, as he is seen to be vindictive, mean and anti-women. He seems to get perverse pleasure in torturing a helpless woman with cruel words and inciting others to perform unspeakable deeds. His verbal abuse of Pandavas is one thing, but his attack on their wife is heinous.
* Draupadi had never spoken to Karna directly. On the occasion of her Swayamvar (it was her wedding, her choice of man), Karna was an uninvited guest and she simply said, I will not marry him. She did not insult him. She called him Mr Suta – what else was she to call him? She was polite and to the point. His vengeance for that incidence was bitter and poisonous.
* There were many good qualities in Karna. However, in the company of Duryodhan, all his good qualities turned sour and he died a bitter man.
* I appreciate your love for Karna and understand your reasons for defending his good name. However, just because you defend him, it does not make him right. Whatever wrongs he did, you must accept as wrongs.
& r those “Sanskrit versions” as mentioned above by u, any composition/creations by any direct student of Veda Vyaasa{4get Veda Vyaasa or Lord Shree Ganesha themselves} or even a 4th or 5th or even 10th order student of Veda Vyaasa????? do those “Sanskrit versions” as mentioned by u, date back to even ca. 3000 BCE or even ca. 2500 BC or even ca. 1000 BC{dat iz a few centuries/millenia after the great battle of Bharata —– ca. 3200 BC}?????????????????
the english version of Kisari Mohan Ganguli’s work iz available readily on several sites & many even have it on their hardisks as pdf file{me included} ——————– I guess, o Mr. Bhagwat Shah, u r also having dat pdf file !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEAZE read dat 5800+ pages pdf file in between the lines carefully thoroughly again n again & c how that same ebook self–contradicts itself in various places {even if one iz 2 4get dat many stuff from that KM Ganguli composed book defy n go against\do not adhere 2 LOGIC REASONING FEASIBILITY RATIONALE INTELLIGENCE WISDOM PLAUSIBILITY PRACTICABILITY prowess of the HUMAN BRAIN etc., Ex:::: Draupadii’s cheerharan, as @Adisty mam correctly pointed out 🙂 }
again @Bhagwat Shah has tried 2 downplay a crime as HEINOUS as RACISM|CASTEISM ————————————— “Karna was not insulted”???? what the hell !!!!!!!!!!!!!! so calling Mr. Suuta iz a “polite” appreciation in ur opinion, o respected @Bhagwat Shah sir?? & infact, Karn waz not just labelled & branded & humiliated az a Suuta &/or a low—birth—person, he was DEPRIVED{even after having successfully won 67% of the Ceremony} of further participation just on the basis of his background n lineage n birth n origin n CASTE\COMMUNITY ——————————– Bhagwat Shah, who calls others fools & takes enormous pride in his legendary wisdom, doesn’t even realize {or perhaps doesn’t want to realize} dat such conduct iz brazen MISANTHROPIST BIGOTED ANTI–HUMANITY RACISM|CASTEISM & HUMAN–RIGHTS n MINORITY–RIGHTS VIOLATIONS & oppression/atrocization/torture/abuse/offending/perpetration/victimization/torment of BACKWARD CLASSES\CREEDS\CASTES\COMMUNITIES\SECTIONS
@Bhagwat Shah, u call others fools but u urself have been foolish enough not 2 understand the properties of Swayamvara —————————– u said dat Karna was an uninvited guest, wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this iz ur quality of research on MHBRT, superb !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! u said dat Draupadii’s sawayamvara was her marriage, her choice of husband(yup, on this, u were right, 4 sure) —————————————– but, can any SUITOR or aspiring husband b TORTURED n VIOLATED n VICTIMIZED n BRUTALIZED????????????????????????? u said::: “He seems to get perverse pleasure in torturing a helpless woman…………… inciting others to perform unspeakable deeds” ——————————— those “unspeakable deeds” were already a pre–meditated cold-blooded CRIMINAL plan of Shakunii & Duryodhana; & who iz Karna{who was always treated like a servant/slave by Shakuunii & Dushshaasana} 2 incite & pioneer those actions from within dat cold–blooded collusionary CRIMINAL plan???? he simply argued in favour of the views(though with illogical irrational unreasonable unwise non–transparent points/arguements) of Duryodhana & Shakunii & Dushshaasana, just bcoz of having sworn an ETERNAL ABSOLUTE allegiance(4 entire life) 2 Duryodhana but I ‘ve already admitted several times previously dat he did do a CRIME by passing the uncalled—for ILLEGAL ZERO–CREDIBLE unfeasible judgements (i) “whore” 4 Draupadii & (ii) “immature naadaan” 4 Vikarna!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but, Bhagwat Shah, u’ve still continued 2 ignore & conceal da CRIME n VIOLATION n BRUTALIZATION etc. dat was committed against Karna at Draupadii’s Swayamvara. & since u’d said::: “He seems to get perverse pleasure in torturing a helpless woman………………….” —————— I’d like 2 ask u, o B.Shah sire, this statement of urs seems 2 suggest dat “it appears/seems to u” dat Karna used 2 do such “acts/conducts 2 obtain perverse pleasure” day in day out —————- so how many such similar examples can u cite after all, ehhhhhhhh????!!!!!!!!!!! & did u transparently & properly & befittingly read\analyze Karna’s mind (by performing psychiatric tests on Karna or hypnotizing Karna during the Dyuut Sabhaa or conducting polygraphy test on Karna later on), o Bhagwat Shah sire, dat u r confidently stating::: “Karna seems to get perverse pleasure………………………….” ????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
however, I must appreciate u 4 stating this::: “Like the Pandavas, Pandu and Dhritrastra were also product of emergency measures” ——————————— u were indeed right on da money whilst depicting this however & I, being an unbiased honest person, will gladly not just accept n acknowledge dat fact, but also laud n commend n praise etc. dat concerned statement of urs……………………………… 🙂
In light of recent unprovoked negative verbal attacks on this site, I doubt I will bother to visit it. I certainly have no time to waste on loud mouth trolls who feel that just because they write a long rant, they are right. I see no point in wasting my time with such fools.
@Bhagwat Shah sire!!!!!!!!!!! b prepared; I’ll b visiting ur own writings in the recent future, the links of which u’ve shared herein in this blog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! & I’ll pose RATIONAL LOGICAL INTELLIGENCE–oriented questions & arguements etc. whenever I would find anything ILLOGICAL & IRRATIONAL & WISDOM–violating etc. ————————————————– if u still use the adjective “loud mouth trolls” 4 LOGICAL—-QUESTIONS\ISSUES—-POSING/RAISING people, even when they try 2 argue with LOGIC, REASONING & RATIONALE{those which u term as “RANTS” 😛 }, u’ll end up harming & compromizing on the quality & credibility factor etc. of such online threads n articles etc.
MB is interesting story, more interesting than Ramayana.
In the beginning, I think that Pandava is right and virtue, and Kaurava is evil. Indonesian books always write that Pandava is good and Kaurava is bad.
But later -after search and read some opinions in the internet- I have different opinion. Many interesting incidents should questioning about Pandava’s virtue.
1. About Pandu leave the kingdom after cursed by Kindamana. Why he don’t back to Hastinapura after the birth of Yudhistira and Bhima?
Why no one of Hastinapura elder visit him in the jungle to celebrate the birth of Pandu’s sons (the heir of Hastinapura) or advice Pandu to come back to Hastinapura and do his duty as Hastinapura king.
2. Draupadi humiliation only write ONCE. After Pandava and Draupadi life in the exile, no one talk about how Durshasana try to pull Draupadi’s clothes and how Khrisna save her.
In my opinion, Karna may said that “Woman with 5 husbands is a whore”. And Duryudhana may ask her to sit down in his thight. But no one try to pull her clothes.
3. After Draupadi humiliation, only Bhima and Arjuna who vow to kill all Kaurava and Karna. But in my opinion, it is because they hate each others since a long ago. And this moment is perfect to legitimate their revenge. You can kill your family without extreme reason.
You know, Draupadi humiliation is STRANGE and WEIRDEST incident for me. It is because Draupadi’s family (father, elder brother and elder sister) not angry. They not angry to Yudhistira, Pandava or Kaurava. Draupada, Dhristadyumma and Srikandhi never blame Yudhistira or Pandava. They never vow to attack Hastinapura or kill someone. Kaurava will killed by Bhima, Karna by Arjuna, Bhisma by Srikandhi, but no one vow to kill Dhristarata and Vidura (and his sons) although they stand in the sabha and keep silent when the incident happened. In my opinion, they attack Hastinapura just to kill Drona.
Today, if you dare to stake your wife in the gamble, I believe that her father will kill you. Or maybe her brothers and sisters. They may put poison in your meal and water to avoid law (police) and revenge from the husband’s family. Other alternative, your wife will divorced you and you will dragged to the court.
If her family not care about her and this incident, why we must care about it? It is her Karma, because she insult Karna, Duryudhana and Dhristarata. Son of blind man is also blind.
4. It is weird to married with a women who came from the family with passion to revenge. Draupadi and Dhritadyumma are born for revenge. One to married with Arjuna, a man who can defeat Draupada. And the other to killed a Brahmana (Drona) who dare to insult Draupada. And Draupada other daughter, Srikandhi, is born to killed Bhisma.
I don’t understand why Pandava (and Kaurava) want to married with Draupadi. Don’t they understand about Drona (and Bhisma) feeling??? if you give Gurudhaksina, is it end your relation and responsibility to your teacher??? Is there nothing other beautiful princess from great kingdom??? Since Draupada share Pancala with Aswathama (Drona’s son), I think Pancala is not great kingdom anymore.
5. In their last journey to Himalaya, Yudhistira explain ‘the sin’ of his wife and brothers that be the reason of their death.
If I were one of his brother, I will questioning why he not fall after he stake his wife n brother, he can’t protect Draupadi from Keechaka humiliation (but ask her not to play drama), he lie to his teacher Drona, he curse his mother when he know about Karna (but never curse himself to stake his wife) and let his wife and brothers died alone in the snowy mountain.
6. And the last, the MOST INTERESTING incident is about Khrisna dead. How could a woman (Gandhari) have a boon to make his son as strong as iron and can cursed ‘God’ Khrisna?
Khrisna SAVE Pandava’s wife from humiliation by send a lot of clothes (if Dursasana really pull her clothes). But Pandava CAN’T SAVE Khrisna’s wives from the THIEVES. After Arjuna come back from Khrisna’s funeral ceremony and defeat by thieves, Yudhistira said that HE LOST HIS INTEREST TO THE WORLD and prepare his last JOURNEY (with his brothers and wife) to Himalaya.
Why Pandava not ask their army to search and rescue Khrisna’s wives? Why they not try to punish the thieves? Pandava have army to expand their land after Bharatayudha, but they don’t have any man to save Khrisna’s wives. Where is Bhima who have strength equal with thousand elephants??? Where is Arjuna who can revenge for the death of his son (Abhimanyu) but don’t have any strength to revenge the thieves.
Subadhra is Khrisna’s younger sister, and she not blame Pandava because they not save her sisters in law. Parikhesit who have Yadava’s blood, even not try to catch the thieves. He just famous for ‘death snake in the Brahmana’s neck’ incident.
Khrisna save Draupadi from stripped by Dursasana (if it really happened).
Khrisna be a peace-maker between Pandava and Kaurava.
Khrisna revealed the truth to Karna, so Karna lost his interest to kill Pandava.
Khrisna strengthen Arjuna when he afraid to joint the war.
Khrisna save Arjuna many times in the Bharatayudha. He sent Gatotkacha to be killed by Karna’s Shakti. He drive Arjuna away from Drona’s Chakravyuha. He manipulate the sun, so Arjuna can revenge the death of Abhimanyu. He makes Arjuna’s chariot lower, so Karna’s arrow not shot Arjuna’s neck.
Khrisna save Pandava from Aswatama assassination (but not save their sons).
Khrisna save Arjuna’s grand son.
But, look how Pandava (specially Arjuna) PAY their DEBT to Khrisna. They are really GOOD FRIEND.
If I can meet Khrisna, I will advice him to make friendship and relation with Karna. I will advice him to marrying his younger sister with Karna. Karna (and his sons) is ready to die to his friend. Karna always there when Duryudhana need him. Karna know how to pay his debt, even when the world against him. It is not easy to makes Karna feel desperate.
If I can meet Pandava, I will BEG to them to search and punish the thieves. Save Khrisna’s wives. After that, I don’t care if they want to take journey and final rest in Himalaya mountain or Sahara desert or Pacific Ocean or Amazon jungle.
If I were the Pandava, I choose to die because fight with the thieves who dare to kidnapped Khrisna’s wives than died because hungry, tired and freeze temperature in the mountain.
How they can go to Himalaya with peace and go to heaven???
Can someone give me a light for those question, please???
Sorry if my English bad. I try the best, but I don’t understand about tenses.
In this Holy Ramadhan, I wish God give me a son like Karna; genius, religious, respect his (foster) parent, love his family, always fight to reach his dreams, can control his emotion and handsome.
And the second wish, I hope I can buy some MB books, such as:
1. Mrityunjaya (Conqueror of Death) by Shivaji Sawant
From the POV of Karna
Do you know, in Amazon online shop, Mrityunjay price is more than $2000 (not include shipping cost). Fantastic. The most expensive MB books. Even Yuganta price is not more than $300 (CMIIW). But it still better than that book not available.
So, for you who have this book, you are lucky. And you should keep it well. Who know 1-2 years from know, the price would increase.
Unlucky, for MB lover who not came from India. It is little hard to buy those books. I must have credit card and saving my money…
But as Karna lover, I should not desperate against all odds to have this book 🙂
2. Dhananjaya (Conqueror of wealth)by Rajendra Kher
From the POV of Arjuna
3. Duryodhana by Kaka Vidhate
From the POV of Duryodhana
4. Yugandhar (Leader of an Era) by Shivaji Sawant
From the POV of Krishna
5. Radheya (Son of Radha) by Ranjit Desai From the POV of Karna
6. Yugant (The End of an Era) by Irawati Karve
7. Jaya (Victory) by Devadutt Pattanaik
8. Karna khara kon hota? (Who was Karna) by Daji Panashikar
9. Kapatneeti (Politics of Treachery) by Daji Panashikar
10. Mahabharat: Ek Sudacha Pravas (A Journey of Revenge) by Daji Panashikar
11. The Lore of Mahabharata by Amaleśa B.
12. Yajnaseni (Daughter of Fire) by Pratibha Ray
From the POV of Draupadi
13. And Now Let Me Sleep by P. Kesavan Balakrishnan
From the POV of Draupadi and Karna.
14. Randaamoozham (The Second Turn) by M.T. Vasudevan Nair
From the POV of Bhima
15. The Stone Women and other stories by Shashi Deshpande
16. Krishnavatara by Dr K M Munshi
17. Parva by S L Bhyrappa
(A retelling of the Mahabharata that eliminates all divine elements.)
18. Jyeshtha by Anant Manohar
From the POV of Yudhishthira
19. The Mahabharata by Bibek Debroy
20. Vyasaparva by Durgabai Bhagwat
21. Mahabharata na Patro by Moolshanker Bhatt
22. Bhimsen by Prem Panicker
From the POV of Bhima
23. The Mahabharata by Kamala Subramaniam
If I could have those books, I think I can build a library, special for MB story :)
For you who ever read those books, would you like to share the story, please? I wish God bless you all 🙂
Thanks
Karna was great than that of Arjun.. btw karna defeated pandvas except arjuna..
If karna wants he had ability to kill pandvas but he had given oath to kunti to not killing his 4 brothers excepts Arjuna.. Arjuna killed Karna by breaking battle field rules on the order of Krushna..
I hate that krishana who is only reason for such a disasters life of greatest warrior charitable noble pious righteous mightiest bravest and strongest character of mahabharat time known as karna .
I don’t worship him because I hate that “Self proclaimed God” most. If that “god” is true that nothing can be happen without his wish . He is the owner of ishitva siddhi through which he controls the nature its qualities illusion and beings according to his wish . So if you follow him y should accept the fact that for a disasters happening with karna he is only cause nothing else.
But this can be happen can he fall up to such a limit ? I think the whole incident was come out of jealousy as also happened in other cases like
# killing of monkey king Bali in previous ram incarnation.
# killing of hiranyakashyap in nursing incarnation
# killing of bhisma drona karna
# killing of ravana.
# pushing king Bali in netherworld.
I think that these happenings were nothing but result of jealousy which lord Krishna or Vishnu had.
So now y should focus on should he be understood as god?
My concept is clear that. This world is only for power full people whatever they do is righteous. So I suggest you be power full however you can be.
Just imagine who sad that anger greed lust illusion and egoism are the enemy of human being. It is the statement of holy trinity.. but they themselves are not free from these .
So they don’t have a right to say to follow these to others.
Karna -a warrior who sacrificed his life for friendship.He is not bad by birth but the later circumstances made him like that.He is righteous,brave,a true warrior,handsome king of the Anga kingdom.
why there is any comparison between karna & arjun everybody knows that karna & arjun despite being brothers grow in different situations so please no should compare them . I really feel bad when someone to appreciate one character disrespect & talks really mean about other for me both are puppets in the hand of Krishna & more important KAAL